How much should an airfill be?

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I know locally non commercial VIP stickers are not terribly welcome. The expressed concern is the lack of liability coverage backing the inspection. I'm sure protecting the revenue stream is part of it too. I've seen resistance when others have been travelling regionally looking for fils in unfamilar places.

For the hassles involved so far I have been letting the LDS have the business and me keep my time.

They do hydro onsite and while there may be an opportinty to save a little elsewhere there's not enough left on the table to bother for the interval involved.

I use TDi stickers and write my cert on the sticker. If they won't fill they get zero of my business. I own 11 tanks and in 2 years that class pays got itself. Add $100 for tools to do the job right it's 3 years.

---------- Post added November 21st, 2012 at 02:30 PM ----------

My guess is when you do the math, you will be paying more than $20 if you truly figure in all your expenses by having your own compressor.

I just had someone drive an hour to fill their 2 cuft. cylinder. They were very happy that we were able to provide the service.

Should we lose money on fills?

I've done the math. Realistically air would cost me a little over $8 a fill for my current volume of dives. I pay $10 for that now. I buy my gas from a guy that bought his own compressor because he got tired of the BS like in availability of nitrox and rising costs. He does a very low volume of fills and still makes to justify keeping his service available. For $2 isn't worth the hassle of me owning a compressor. $12 certainly would be.

Note I advised the OP not to buy a compressor if he'd given prices like yours my feedback would be different. Be glad I don't live in you area. I'd create a compressor co-op just to show how inflated your $20 fill is.....
 
I use TDi stickers and write my cert on the sticker. If they won't fill they get zero of my business. I own 11 tanks and in 2 years that class pays got itself. Add $100 for tools to do the job right it's 3 years.

It's all fine and good to have a tude if they won't honor your noncommercial inspections but that doesn't salvage the long weekend where the one copressor guy in town won't deal with you. I know it can work some of the time for some of the people in some of the places. I have witnessed resistance in multiple shops.

Anyone considering the DIY VIP route needs to realize it's not a slam dunk. If you stay in a circle of shops known to be friendly to your stickers I agree it can become a no brainer.

Pete
 
It's all fine and good to have a tude if they won't honor your noncommercial inspections but that doesn't salvage the long weekend where the one copressor guy in town won't deal with you. I know it can work some of the time for some of the people in some of the places. I have witnessed resistance in multiple shops.

Anyone considering the DIY VIP route needs to realize it's not a slam dunk. If you stay in a circle of shops known to be friendly to your stickers I agree it can become a no brainer.

Pete

I find it funny that their shop tag carries less weight than a certifying agency tag with credentials. I do agree you need to be sure you aren't screwed on a dive though. To date I've had issue with one shop. I haven't been back in 3 years. I'm happy to let them do their thing. It's just won't be supported by my money.
 
I've done the math. Realistically air would cost me a little over $8 a fill for my current volume of dives.
616fun, Please share your figures.
 
I saw a lot of good info - and a lot of BS in this thread.

I bought a continuous duty compressor from Jim Sheldon (in the compressor forum of this site) this year - and EASILY broke even in the first year.

If you are mixing nitrox - and have the ability to by o2 by the K bottle - its not hard.

So cost justification alone........its easier than people want you to believe. Now - that being said, I cheated. I went in on the compressor with someone else so my capital outlay was less.


Then, add the convenience - and its was a no brainer.
 
616fun, Please share your figures.

There have been several posts with the breakdowns earlier on in this thread and none of them came close to $20 a fill. Evidently the rescission has not hit Eagle/Vail Colorado and good for you if you can get $20 for an air fill. Around the North East $20 fills would drive a shop out of business, if divers are not coming in for fills they are not purchasing gear either. I do find it hard to believe that you are breaking even on your fills, maybe on paper you are but on paper you could show the numbers to reflect breaking even at $100 a fill. Can you enligthen us how you came to the $20 a fill number? Are you billing in your time for the fills? At $50 an hour and 15 minutes to fill a tank you have $12.50 just in labor, so that leaves $7.50 for the actual cost of the product which would sound reasonable.

When you first came on SB I wanted a shirt that said Beaver Divers on it, you may say it has no sexual innuendo but I believe Freud would think otherwise. Now after most of the posts you have made here, I would not be caught dead wearing one of your shirts. But hay what do I know? According to you I'm not even a real Tech diver.
 
616fun, Please share your figures.

My figures fall in line with all the other breakdowns give or take.

Your screwing your customers over. Most shops will say that air is a lost leader and the cost of doing business. You shoot for break even. You get the diver into get a fill and check out that new reg/BC/backplate/computer you just for in. Selling for profit is an option, just not one that would support a long term business model in my neck of the woods.
 
We charge $30 to rent a full SCUBA cylinder.

WOW...Thats insane.....I have my own , but my local quarry rents full cylinders for $16.00 , and my LDS rents them for $20.00...
 
Are you sure your a Tech diver?

I believe for true Tech divers, $50 is a drop in the bucket.

Where I live, a set of double 100's filled with blended 32% runs $40 is is right on the cusp of what I'm willing to tolerate but very begrudgingly (they do offer a $200/year unlimited NITROX plan which makes it moot). I'll also happily pay for trimix fills -- which are not cheap these days. But I would never pay more than $7 for an air fill. At $20 you would never see me in your shop and you would also see me screaming from the rooftops to all my dive buddies and students to avoid your shop. Where I live there are many other shops to choose from (about 15 within driving distance) but there weren't, I'd be getting my own compressor.

Tech divers are not frivolous spenders -- at least not anyone I know is. Yes, we'll spend a lot, but not frivolously and $20 air fills is the very definition of rip-off.

---------- Post added November 21st, 2012 at 09:59 PM ----------

I find it funny that their shop tag carries less weight than a certifying agency tag with credentials. I do agree you need to be sure you aren't screwed on a dive though. To date I've had issue with one shop. I haven't been back in 3 years. I'm happy to let them do their thing. It's just won't be supported by my money.

Around here, for NITROX most shops will only honor their own stickers. For air I don't think anyone cares. One reason I have so many tanks in my garage is because I occasionally have to match a tank with the shop what will be doing the fill. Everyone blends. But even the ONE shop that uses membrane, he will only accept his own sticker. I do VIP my own tanks but I understand the risk that I could be out a fill. Most shops know me and it helps much, but pity the stranger they don't know.
 
My figures fall in line with all the other breakdowns give or take.

Your screwing your customers over. Most shops will say that air is a lost leader and the cost of doing business. You shoot for break even. You get the diver into get a fill and check out that new reg/BC/backplate/computer you just for in. Selling for profit is an option, just not one that would support a long term business model in my neck of the woods.

I have run the numbers very conservatively and no matter what beaver divers says @100 fills per year *$20 = $2000.00 A brand spanking new compressor is only $3500 I agree with 616fun.How on earth could charging $20 a cyl be breaking even? how many fills do you do a year? how many do you do for free?

Thats the discussion I had w/my dive shop. I went to fill 6 tanks over the summer and while I was waiting he filled 8 or so tanks for no charge to people that worked there, buddies, etc. Now if you figure the cost of compressor maint, electricity etc and dont count the fact that 40% of the fills you do are for free than dont go crying that the air fills are a break even situation. It seems the people that pay are subsidizing the people that don't. (then the shops cry when they look at their operating cost and how much they brought in from fills "well looks like I have to raise the fill rates again I'm loosing money on fills")

I cant worry about what some dive shop says it cost them to run their compressor I can only try to make an educated decision that is in my own best interest !
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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