JamesK
Contributor
I am fine with it as well.
A question about the devils eye/ear entrances
- Thread starter SWAMPY459
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I am fine with it as well.
Magnolia3
Contributor
Reread what you wrote...yes you did.
Not entirely true. While it is true that the State of Florida owns all land under water... not necessarily just navigable water....The state legislature also deeds land to cities, and counties on a regular basis. Fish N Game or Water Mgt Districts also lease land all the time.. The vast majority of marinas are on leased land for example. It would not surprise me if Ginnie is also not leased to the group who runs it. FYI, fish n game does patrol the Santa Fe. An anchored boat outside of Ginnie would give pause and the owner looked for. I have patrolled with them recently... AT the very least the boat will be considered 'abandoned' and taken under tow back to the boat ramp. When the "owner" shows up to retrieve it........
All I will say is BTDT...and was there when the body was brought up.. and had to tell his mom he died in the caves. That was 1971....
You say you won't be diving the eye and ear, but you argue you want to... and then tell people you have "rights". What about the rights of those who may end up having to go hunt for your body? What IF you don't die but end up a veg in a nursing home for the rest of your "life"....arrogance is not becoming and it has caused more than one person to pay dearly for their self centered behavior. I took care of a 'cave diver' for about three yrs as a private nurse.
Baloney.....You didn't ask about taking a class. James OFFERED to teach you for free and IF you thought it was worth it then you could pay on the backside. You replied with snark... You clearly stated before his offer, that you had NO interest in class taking.
Magnolia, he's a troll. Don't get involved. You'll waste keystrokes just like we did.
I think the 1.7 is more than enough. Afterall, check out this video where a diver runs out of air at the Hinkle about 3200 ft back in Ginne and scooters out on a spare air.
Spare Air: Diver's Salvation - YouTube
diverlee
Contributor
You definatly will get lost using those directions!
At times, we all do stupid things, or things that others judge us for. I know for a fact that people have called my instructor to complain I was doing something unsafe (they were wrong, listened to rumors), and in some cases, posted about me on the internet(s) (again, misunderstanding).
At times we all complain that classes are too expensive. I gladly shelled out the money to Rich, his training was worth the money. Of course it took a while, I'm not made of cash, but I didn't really complain much. There are some cards I'm not sure are quite as worth the money, but the cave cards? There is absolutely no doubt.
Training will check to see if you have the proper mindset and have the ability. Some parts are easy, some are hard. The loop between the Eye and the Ear is pretty easy, but it has several killer sections. And, even trained and practiced full cave divers have problems running and removing line from the system there--not saying that they are very good at cave diving, but training doesn't gaurantee survival.
Super, I think the NAUI technical definition of a traverse mentions that you continue past thirds knowing you have enough to reach your exit. If you exit before reaching thirds, even if you exit at a separate point, is it a traverse from a gas management standpoint? If you never leave your primary reel (is 400 feet enough for this? It might be...but it's probably close) is it a traverse? What if you get into open water at the opposite side but don't surface? Or what if you stay in the cavern and turn around to exit where you came in?
I've lost a few friends to this sport. The first two were the most interesting. One was an intro cave diver who did a full cave dive. The second had failed multiple cavern courses. They died due to a very simple lost line incident that they didn't handle appropriately. Before you consider this dive, I would go find a lime rock driveway (try high springs or fort white, should be easy) and dig at it until your fingernails are completely gone. That's what happens in the panic to get out when all else fails in your "try a little this way, then a little that way" approach.
I've gotten myself into some hot 72* water a few times. The most fun and latest problem was caused by me venturing a mere body length (5'11" or 6'0") from the line. I ended up in a little tiny room with one body sized entrance/exit with 0 viz in 20 feet of water. I deserved what I got, but it was the longest lost line drill I've ever done.
Just the other day I was in a shallow (under 60 foot) cave with 10 foot viz (at best! 0' at worst) with old, brown line. You couldn't get more than 3' from the line before you had to do a lost line drill. It was supposed to be a simple dive, but the slightest problem would have transformed it into a very, very dive to survive. I'm normally very good about knowing where the line is, but in the 2 seconds it took to review a photo and adjust shutter speed, I ended up in a side room. I was only 4 feet from the line but I was reaching for my safety spool to do a lost line drill when I stumbled onto it.
The cavern course is worth $400. It'll let you carry a light into Florida state parks, prepare you for advanced technical courses, ensure you are able to handle situations that can easily induce panic otherwise, and teach you much more about team based diving. Even if you never go further, a proper cavern course is much better than many other courses such as AOW. $200 might buy you a card, but $400 is a good price for a talented instructor who will make you earn it. I highly recommend someone who can give you the phone numbers of people who failed the FIRST try, and who will give you a second try for a small daily fee, perhaps an additional $100 per day.
It's easy to Monday morning quarterback other OW diver mistakes and think you can do it better, but I don't need to waste time telling you this. Joe, the diver who inspired the "dig until your fingernails are gone before you do that dive" trial, posted a request to consider safety mere weeks before he violated his training and died. Additionally, I'd still bet you are a cave diver trolling just to see what we say. You've gotten the standard responses plus a little bit of people who don't know how to use the PM function, and this thread has about run its course. Another day or two and people will start getting mean, it'll get locked, and we'll all move on with our lives discussing important things.
But it does seem like a great opportunity to bring up my favourite YouTube video,
disclaimer: the video is for comedic purposes only. The spare air doesn't last that long, he's acting.
At times we all complain that classes are too expensive. I gladly shelled out the money to Rich, his training was worth the money. Of course it took a while, I'm not made of cash, but I didn't really complain much. There are some cards I'm not sure are quite as worth the money, but the cave cards? There is absolutely no doubt.
Training will check to see if you have the proper mindset and have the ability. Some parts are easy, some are hard. The loop between the Eye and the Ear is pretty easy, but it has several killer sections. And, even trained and practiced full cave divers have problems running and removing line from the system there--not saying that they are very good at cave diving, but training doesn't gaurantee survival.
Super, I think the NAUI technical definition of a traverse mentions that you continue past thirds knowing you have enough to reach your exit. If you exit before reaching thirds, even if you exit at a separate point, is it a traverse from a gas management standpoint? If you never leave your primary reel (is 400 feet enough for this? It might be...but it's probably close) is it a traverse? What if you get into open water at the opposite side but don't surface? Or what if you stay in the cavern and turn around to exit where you came in?
I've lost a few friends to this sport. The first two were the most interesting. One was an intro cave diver who did a full cave dive. The second had failed multiple cavern courses. They died due to a very simple lost line incident that they didn't handle appropriately. Before you consider this dive, I would go find a lime rock driveway (try high springs or fort white, should be easy) and dig at it until your fingernails are completely gone. That's what happens in the panic to get out when all else fails in your "try a little this way, then a little that way" approach.
I've gotten myself into some hot 72* water a few times. The most fun and latest problem was caused by me venturing a mere body length (5'11" or 6'0") from the line. I ended up in a little tiny room with one body sized entrance/exit with 0 viz in 20 feet of water. I deserved what I got, but it was the longest lost line drill I've ever done.
Just the other day I was in a shallow (under 60 foot) cave with 10 foot viz (at best! 0' at worst) with old, brown line. You couldn't get more than 3' from the line before you had to do a lost line drill. It was supposed to be a simple dive, but the slightest problem would have transformed it into a very, very dive to survive. I'm normally very good about knowing where the line is, but in the 2 seconds it took to review a photo and adjust shutter speed, I ended up in a side room. I was only 4 feet from the line but I was reaching for my safety spool to do a lost line drill when I stumbled onto it.
The cavern course is worth $400. It'll let you carry a light into Florida state parks, prepare you for advanced technical courses, ensure you are able to handle situations that can easily induce panic otherwise, and teach you much more about team based diving. Even if you never go further, a proper cavern course is much better than many other courses such as AOW. $200 might buy you a card, but $400 is a good price for a talented instructor who will make you earn it. I highly recommend someone who can give you the phone numbers of people who failed the FIRST try, and who will give you a second try for a small daily fee, perhaps an additional $100 per day.
It's easy to Monday morning quarterback other OW diver mistakes and think you can do it better, but I don't need to waste time telling you this. Joe, the diver who inspired the "dig until your fingernails are gone before you do that dive" trial, posted a request to consider safety mere weeks before he violated his training and died. Additionally, I'd still bet you are a cave diver trolling just to see what we say. You've gotten the standard responses plus a little bit of people who don't know how to use the PM function, and this thread has about run its course. Another day or two and people will start getting mean, it'll get locked, and we'll all move on with our lives discussing important things.
But it does seem like a great opportunity to bring up my favourite YouTube video,
disclaimer: the video is for comedic purposes only. The spare air doesn't last that long, he's acting.
Ayisha
Contributor
How come no one has checked Swampy's IP address yet to see if he's a sock puppet for anyone?
Well, whatever SWAMPY### will do, he'll do. Never saw his experience- maybe only OW.
But I want to thank the Cave Divers here for their extensive input. He may be a troll, but your keystokes have been very educational to others reading this INTERESTING exchange.
Thanks,
Terry
But I want to thank the Cave Divers here for their extensive input. He may be a troll, but your keystokes have been very educational to others reading this INTERESTING exchange.
Thanks,
Terry
Bhtmec2
Contributor
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