Agencies?

[TSandM]

ChaosHokie, that's a great post, and goes back to something I think I've said a couple of times in this thread, which is that, at the recreational/open water level, BOTH agencies offer great training that's a big step up from what else is out there. You really can't go wrong with training from either, if what you want is a standardized approach to diving, with a strong emphasis on well-honed personal skills and strong situational awareness.

 

[rjack321]

lol, so if I dive ginnie springs and it hits 101' I stop the dive? Come on, reel it back in a little.

Real diving =/ e-diving.

Then don't mark your 21/35 stages 150 if you are realistically willing to dive them to 160 or maybe a little further. I think the latest GUE stage marking convention is BS, so I don't do it like that. I also think UTD "system" of sometimes marking stages and sometimes not is completely BS. I guess since I mark common sense MODs where maximum means maximum means I'm not DIR. Go figure, many people think I'm an internet DIR zealot.

"Consider the end" doesn't mean to choose based on cave or technical diving requirements. For some, the end is a 30ft reef dive in warm waters. In that case, the differences between the two agencies may very well be insignificant. For me, when someone says "consider the end", it just means if possible, figure out what you think you will want out of diving this year, maybe next year and maybe the year after that. And make your decisions accordingly.

Its not like anyone is locked into anything. You can always switch agencies as your goals change. I am currently doing a bunch of sidemounting because I need to, even though I took GUE Cave2 in backmount. I'm not using UTD's system, I'm not thinking my sidemount systems (2) are "DIR", and yes I can still backmount "DIR" when I want to.

 

[Blackwood]

^^ my 21/35 stage says "160".

*shrug*

 

[Adobo]

Its not like anyone is locked into anything. You can always switch agencies as your goals change. I am currently doing a bunch of sidemounting because I need to, even though I took GUE Cave2 in backmount. I'm not using UTD's system, I'm not thinking my sidemount systems (2) are "DIR", and yes I can still backmount "DIR" when I want to.

That's true. But if the guy knows he wants to do sidemount or CCR, then including GUE as part of the path might not be the most efficient route there. Or, if the guy wants to participate in GUE related activities and/or be part of a dive community that consists of divers trained mostly by GUE, it might be better to start with GUE early as the crossover from other agencies is painful at best.

If he doesn't know what he will want to do down the road, then he doesn't know. That's fine. Like you said, there is nothing that prevents one from "cross training" as their goals develop or change.

 

[PfcAJ]

Then don't mark your 21/35 stages 150 if you are realistically willing to dive them to 160 or maybe a little further. I think the latest GUE stage marking convention is BS, so I don't do it like that. I also think UTD "system" of sometimes marking stages and sometimes not is completely BS. I guess since I mark common sense MODs where maximum means maximum means I'm not DIR. Go figure, many people think I'm an internet DIR zealot.



Its not like anyone is locked into anything. You can always switch agencies as your goals change. I am currently doing a bunch of sidemounting because I need to, even though I took GUE Cave2 in backmount. I'm not using UTD's system, I'm not thinking my sidemount systems (2) are "DIR", and yes I can still backmount "DIR" when I want to.

Then you end up with a crew of jokers who mark their bottles any way they please, and the entire idea of standardized bottle markings goes right out the window.

At the technical level, you've got to be able to use your knowledge and experience to guide your diving. If you don't have that, then by all means, stay on the boat if the wreck is at 152' and your bottle is marked 150'.

Fwiw, I look at MOD and my focus is on the O. Operating. If I take a dip to 205 on 18/45, but the average of the dive is more like 180, I'm ok with that. Same with 21/35 going to 160 for a bit. Time at depth and length of the dive all come into play with this stuff. If the planned average is in the 160 range, then just bump up to the next standard gas. If the dive ends up being shallower, the deco difference is minimal. I've done that PLENTY of times.

Deco gases are already high ppo2 gases, and you don't deco on a 70 bottle at 80ft.

Bottom gases are intentionally conservative and have a wide range. Deco gases, not so much, but the conditions one uses a deco gas in are typically less dynamic than bottom gas.

 

[Blackwood]

Then you end up with a crew of jokers who mark their bottles any way they please, and the entire idea of standardized bottle markings goes right out the window.

At the technical level, you've got to be able to use your knowledge and experience to guide your diving. If you don't have that, then by all means, stay on the boat if the wreck is at 152' and your bottle is marked 150'.

Fwiw, I look at MOD and my focus is on the O. Operating. If I take a dip to 205 on 18/45, but the average of the dive is more like 180, I'm ok with that. Same with 21/35 going to 160 for a bit. Time at depth and length of the dive all come into play with this stuff. If the planned average is in the 160 range, then just bump up to the next standard gas. If the dive ends up being shallower, the deco difference is minimal. I've done that PLENTY of times.

Deco gases are already high ppo2 gases, and you don't deco on a 70 bottle at 80ft.

Bottom gases are intentionally conservative and have a wide range. Deco gases, not so much, but the conditions one uses a deco gas in are typically less dynamic than bottom gas.

Seems that you either have a bunch of jokers who mark their bottles how they please or a bunch of yahoos who dive their bottles however they please.

Pick your poison.

 

[PfcAJ]

The latter

If diving to 160 is outside of your comfort zone, then don't do it . If you think a ppo2 of 1.23 is too much, then don't dive that. If you understand that "150" gas is ok at and around 150, then go nuts.

I think 50ft MOD increments is pretty handy, it reduces ambiguity and the gases have a fairly wide range.

Rjack, Marc and others, I'm interested as to how you guys mark your bottles. No flaming, just curious. I have a lot of respect for you guys as divers.

 

[Rainer]

I have my 21/35 stages marked 160. I don't bother with 18/45 until I know I'll be averaging deeper than 160'. I label 18/45 as 200, but I've never dived past 190. I'll label 32% as 100 and 30/30 as 120.

I'm all for standardizing bottle markings, but I'm also for choosing sensible markings relative to the depth one actually plans to take the bottle, and I'd prefer MOD to mean MOD.

 

[Blackwood]

Duplicate post

 

[Blackwood]

The latter

If diving to 160 is outside of your comfort zone, then don't do it . If you think a ppo2 of 1.23 is too much, then don't dive that. If you understand that "150" gas is ok at and around 150, then go nuts.

I think 50ft MOD increments is pretty handy, it reduces ambiguity and the gases have a fairly wide range.

Rjack, Marc and others, I'm interested as to how you guys mark your bottles. No flaming, just curious. I have a lot of respect for you guys as divers.

I actually only own one stage. It has permanent 160s. I duct tape over it and write in 100 for 32. I've never used 18/45 in a stage, but if I do chances are I'd be diving with Rainer and I'd mark 200 for consistency (though i'd prefer 190).

I would have no problem going out to Florida (or China?) and diving a 150 bottle of 21/35 to 160 with you even if 21/35 were my 150 gas. Maybe it's because I've never been bit by O2, but I don't really suspect that it's *that* critical or that exposure tables are any more precise than deco schedules. If I tox after 30 minutes at 160 on 21, I suspect there's a good chance the same thing would have happened 150. Clearly there is a hard limit, but I believe it varies from dive to dive and diver to diver. However, i recognize that statement is problematic. If 160 is okay, what about 180 or 190 or 200? Where does the giggle room run out?

I do like the even 50s and different depths for bottom/stage from GUE's current standard gasses, however. Overlapping deco and bottom gases are kludgey, although I don't dive deep enough to where it becomes an issue.