Cave, cavern & wreck entry diving tips for open water divers

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

I know. That is why I posted the link to the Incident List from IUCRR. They can read about those who died, and maybe it will open their eyes a little more.

However, you stated "tips". To me a tip is how to do something. I will not give anyone tips on how to do overhead diving. I will give them warnings about why they should not do it without proper training, and I think a list of dead people is a pretty good warning.

The title of the thread is intentionally misleading--just like a dive professional telling a new diver or a diver untrained in overheads--"no problem you are with me an "instructor" trust me you will be fine on this dive." I do hope people will read the thread and the "tips" they take away will be solid reasons and as well as reading old threads linked to in this one about people who in fact did these sorts of dives without proper overhead training and the permanent fatal consequences that so many have needlessly suffered.

And another reason for the title is that a lot of people want to do these sorts of dives and think all will be well with an "instructor" along. I remember a thread about a year or so ago where two "instructors" went cave diving and one did not come home. Some of the friends and family of that person were defending them as great divers. None the less they had never been overhead trained and it did not work out so well. Just because someone is a race car driving instructor does not qualify them for flying a plane or leading others to do so. Both are fast means of transportation, but the environment in which each operates even though both pass through air is very different.

As I said above, I read over and over how it is not stressed enough or clearly enough to open water divers, so this is a chance to do that. As for the work around crowd, nothing will ever change the minds of those people.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

To illustrate the point that you can't learn cave / wreck from the Internet I notice that a number of the blogs here talk about the silt out and a loss of visibility.

The reality is that I (along with most cave divers) have been in zero (which means you might as well close your eyes) visibility a number of times. It's actually a minor inconvenience. A line trap, getting caught on some old fishing net inside a wreck or delays on exit putting me into severe decompression are just a few of the things that worry me a lot more than coming out blind. You need to be taught the basics by a cave / wreck instructor and then slowly grow your experience.

 

[Dive the World]

I know experienced guys who almost died inside a wreck.

Have people been on a ship? an actual ship? You can get disoriented on a ship easily because all the passages are about the same within the confined space.

Now imagine being in the same wreck 30, 40, 50 meters under the water. Even if you had a map you would get disoriented.

Now imagine the same wreck on its port side, everything is sideways being disoriented in a matter of seconds - limited air - you kick up silt - you loose your buddy - heart pounding - panic sets in - you start swimming trying to get out - but you are now so disoriented you are actually getting deeper in to wreck - there are fallen cables - you get entangled -no buddy no light no exit and soon no air.

If you do want to go inside a wreck and cave because you are curious get proper training.

if you are super curious and just can't help yourself and don't want to pay attention to advise please don't go beyond 12 feet - look behind you! can you still see the light? can you still see the exit? no? you have gone too far

 

[CamG]

Yikes Cave Diver that would be more than distracting inside a wreck!
Like the story of a Sat. diver working a while back and the intake screen for cooling his suit taking in jelly fish!
The story left a impact on my memory.
Deco while your extremities were on fire did not seem very nice nor when any part of your body was stinging / burning!

These are not common occurrences but they DO HAPPEN!
How much can YOU take before you are undoable to manage your stress and make good decisions underwater?
I think back to my Rescue class and the stress our instructor put on us to demonstrate how hard it can be to focus under pressure on the surface let alone underwater!
It all comes back to training and maintenance of skill sets!
You will only perform to lowest level of training!
TRAIN LIKE YOU WANT TO DIVE!

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Penetrating a wreck or cave or cavern requires peak performance buoyancy skills and kicking techniques to avoid kicking up silt (almost always present) and bumping into hazards like jagged metal. An overhead environment precludes immediate ascent, so redundant equipment and emergency gear (spare air, etc) are essential. So are other equipment items including a line and reel, lights, and more. Diving in a dangerous environment without proper equipment and training remains a hazard even if one of the group is trained. Everyone on the dive needs to be competent to deal with the special hazards and requirements of the dive, or that one weak link is a hazard for everyone else. And so....DON'T DO IT.
DivemastrDennis

 

[Crush]

Here are two videos, each has a part 1 and a part 2. I personally believe that these reenactments can have more of an impact (on some) than lecturing. I am not suggesting the videos be used in lieu of instruction, but in addition to instruction:

• Rescue 911 - Episode 202 - "Scuba Cave" (Part 1 of 2) - YouTube
• Rescue 911 - Episode 202 - "Scuba Cave" (Part 2 of 2) - YouTube

• Rescue 911 - Episode 418 - "Venezuela Cave Save" (Part 1) - YouTube
• Rescue 911 - Episode 418 - "Venezuela Cave Save" (Part 2) - YouTube

 

[TSandM]

Too many people think they're ready for overhead environments because they ​

neverscrewed up. If you've never screwed up, then you've never learned the lessons necessary. Training - good overhead environment training - makes you feel like a screw-up from start-to-finish. At the end of it, you know something...and you're aware of your own limitations - that's a start for entering caves or wrecks.

This is the key. I remember my wreck workshop, where we took 12 minutes putting a line in . . . and, in simulated blackout conditions, we took 38 minutes to attempt to get out, ending up with line so wrapped around my husband that we would never, in a real situation, have gotten him out within the limits of the gas we had. (The instructor cut the drill to show us what we had done.) I doubt that any single lesson I've learned has had the impact of that one.

In addition to everything else in overhead diving, it requires tremendous poise. If you have not encountered and solved some problems in open water, you have no idea how you will react when you are stressed. A lot of websites quote the statistic that fewer than 10% of open water divers are SUITABLE to become cave divers -- this isn't because people can't be taught good buoyancy control. It's because you need a certain kind of temperament to maintain your equanimity in the face of an escalating problems. Not everyone is suitable to be a firefighter, trauma surgeon or ER doc, and not everyone is suitable for overhead environment diving, either.

 

[Cave Diver]

Some of the friends and family of that person were defending them as great divers. None the less they had never been overhead trained and it did not work out so well.

I've seen this type of comment a lot. I've seen it posted on this very board about a death in the not so distant past. Friends and family who have never seen the person dive touted how great the victim's skills were. People with no idea of what it took to safely do these dives listened with rapt attention to the exploits the victim recounted to them and just knew he was a great diver. Never mind that he was diving beyond his training. Never mind that his gear configuration had some serious flaws. Never mind that there was a video posted showing him to be just this side of a charlie foxtrot in the water. He was still a great diver and they knew it. And of course (to my knowledge) no one who saw this person ever called them on it when he was still alive.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of people stick their head in the sand. "It's not my problem, so I'm not getting involved." When I was a kid growing up, if a neighbor saw me misbehaving they'd yell at me whether they knew me or not. If we went to the store and did something I shouldn't, the clerk or another shopper would probably find my mom. Not anymore. Most people (if they even notice something) just tend to look the other way and pretend it didn't happen.

If we want to make an impact, some of the coddling has to stop. A friend told me once about a cave dive that went wrong like it was no big deal. After listening to their story I flat out told them "You keep that up and you're going to DIE in a cave. You can't continue to make that many mistakes and get away with it." Thankfully, they listened and worked on their deficiencies and improved their skills.

The big challenge is getting the message across without coming off as a complete ass. The best way to do that is to build a relationship with the person so they know that you have their best interests at heart.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I did a simple exercise (copied from someone else) with my son's which reinforces to all 3 of us the dangers of a cave/wreck entry. We simply put on a spare mask with tape over the front to simulate a silt out and attempted to swim a known course and ascend. We had 2 buddies watch our butt, but all 3 of us came away with some new respect for the total disorientation possible from a few errant fin kicks in a confined space.

 

[farsidefan1]

I appreciate what you are trying to accomplish by using this thread title. I just hope that all the "DON'T DO IT" warning sink in. The idea that anyone would take "tips" from the internet instead of getting real training is pretty frightening.