Overhead environments and open water scuba divers

[ArcticDiver]

The comments about training are, in my opinon, right on. But they don't go far enough. I was very fortunate that my training emphasized my responsibility to say "No" if I was being put in a situation in which I was uncomfortable. Over the years I have observed an almost blind obedience by divers to Instructors, Dive Masters, Dive Guides and others of similar position. In more than one case the situation was clearly dangerous and the divers were doing what amounted to Trust Me dives with no clear idea how to handle any of the several emergencies that could have happened.

By the way this applies to the entire dive, not just overhead environments.

Maybe a bit more emphasis on each diver's responsibility for themselves and their companions would go a long way to resolving this kind of an issue.

 

[Racer_X]

High-five for you! Clips vs mags is a pet peeve of mine. Good to see someone else on the proper nomenclature crusade!

A magazine is what I read. Never been able to fit a copy of Newsweek inside my pistol, nor seen a functioning pistol with a copy of People inside....

 

[PfcAJ]

When I was your age (I have no idea how old you are, that's just a thing people say), if I called a magazine a clip (or vice versa), I'd be doing pushups, wall sits, 'bows and toes', and/or log situps for a long, long time.

 

[Racer_X]

Then I guess times have changed. When I did my rotations in the armory, I was far more concerned about the trainee's ability to service the weapon safely than waste limited instruction time doing remedial pt.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[ArcticDiver]

What in the world do the last three posts have to do with overhead environments?

 

[Racer_X]

Well, with the right ordnance added to your gear, it really wouldn't be a problem because you could make air holes as you go.

All kidding aside, you are correct, and we now return you to your thread. Sorry.

 

[chrpai]

Then I guess times have changed. When I did my rotations in the armory, I was far more concerned about the trainee's ability to service the weapon safely than waste limited instruction time doing remedial pt.

That's the beauty with a bunch of PFCs and LCPLs in the Marines. You can wake em up at 0 dark 30, pt their butts off and then hit their day job. Then hit it again late at night and send them back to bed. There's always enough hours in the day to accomplish everything and it doesn't cost you extra!

 

[tstormdiver]

OK guys, don't you think it is time to get this thread back on track, its a pretty important topic.. It is not about nomenclature for firearms, we can start another thread on that, if you'd like. The gun thing only started when I compared OW divers going into overhead environment to playing Russian Roulette.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

The thing is that we are talking about Guidelines and Recommendations of the dive industry not LAWS. We can't exactly sanction someone for not following them. Training agencies or sponsors my withdraw their support but as far as I know it is very difficult to withdraw a certificate or qualification once it has been awarded! People keep saying it is all about education and I think that is the goal of this thread!

Don't get me wrong..I am not advocating that people ignore those guidelines! We are talking about adults who make decisions all the time. Education, knowledge, training and experience give us the skills to make better decisions. I have entered overhead environments on a few occasions but not for any of the motivations or "reasons" that have been tossed about here.

We take a calculated risk every time we enter the water. My dives in overhead environments were a continuation of that. I spoke to a large number of people who had done the dives, saw pictures, knew what to expect, had my backup gear, knew my gear was in good working order, knew how much gas I would need. Basically I had a well thought out plan with lots of redundancy.

I can not justify a trip to another state to take an expensive course to dive a cave that has dozens of divers go through it pretty well every week, year round year after year! There have been thousands of people through that cave with no incidents. It meets all of Lyn's criteria with the exception of the 2M(6ft) chimney where two divers can't go side by side. There are no entanglement hazards.

I believe that having a sensible series of questions to ask to determine if a given overhead environment is appropriate for a given diver is a great way for people to make better decisions.

I find it interesting that people talk about "Trust me" dives when we do them all the time. Every time I commit to a dive that I haven't done before based on a dive brief given to me by someone else I am doing a trust me dive to some degree. All a matter of interpretation I guess.

 

[gypsyjim]

Where does a simple trust me guiding, cross over into a much riskier, blind trust entry into a dive the diver should not be attempting yet?

And, how does the diving world reach the average, occasional diver, possibly on their once in a lifetime exotic dive, with this message about that difference ?