Is ScubaBoard against local dive shops?

[freewillie]

A good LDS is a good LDS, and a bad LDS just sucks. A good LDS will offer reasonable prices, may offer discounts to loyal customers, and provides good service. It's not hard to spot. And a bad LDS will blow smoke up your a** and give you a song and dance all the while trying to fleece your wallet. That's not hard to spot either.

As with everything else, when a bad LDS treats a SB member poorly we will hear about the incident. This will prompt whole host of responses with many participants chiming in about their own bad LDS. The thread invariably turns to LDS v online stores with posters taking sides.

It's not the LDS per se, it's that consumers as a whole are against bad service and high prices. There are many posts here about how some diver's love their LDS and try to support them when possible.

I don't think SB in general is against LDS, but it sure makes an impression when someone gets bad service.

 

[theduckguru]

Is SB against LDSs? No, but many contributors are service independant customers vs many LDS's business models that rely on service dependant customers. When service dependants are encouraged to be independant, it costs the LDS money and they don't like it much.

 

[Colliam7]

But one comment that really surprised me was made by a shop owner who stated that Scubaboard is against local dive shops. I'm guessing because we allow discussion about servicing gear, encourage people to shop around, and that buying on line is not taboo. Maybe it's because we have a forum for DIY guys and gals? . . . So my question to shop owners and divers is do you feel that SB is against the LDS.

I don't think that SB is categorically against the LDS. The very nature of SB encourages the presence of 1) more than a few individuals who have questions that they are not able to / don't want to have answered by a LDS, 2) divers who are opinionated and have little reluctance to share those opinions, and 3) DIY types (not necessarily restricted to DIY forum goers) who are interested in tinkering. In addition, there are periodic posts across multiple threads detailing how poor the service / prices / selection / information / whatever is at some particular dive shop or another, or at LDS in general. That combination, when viewed by a LDS owner / manager feeling the increasing commercial pressure of alternatives to the retail, brick and mortar store, could easily leave the impression that SB is anti-LDS. So, the comment doesn't surprise me, although I don't happen to agree with it.

However a couple times there was the sideways glance at the notion a diver could service their own gear with the proper qualifications as I had the kits for the HOG regs on display along with the TDI HOG Equipment Service Clinic outline. . . . This shop owner also stated he did not believe divers should be servicing their own gear and was quite suprised when I showed him just one of the resources divers have for information . .

I am teaching a PADI Equipment class this week, and just finished a 4 hour session last night, at the LDS, where I was showing the divers how to (among other things) a) do a VIP, b) disassemble and service a tank valve, c) patch a bladder with a puncture, etc. In class, I provided them with a handout, that outlined a list of 'resources' available to the diver who wants to better understand, select, and maintain their equipment, which specifcally included the ScubaBoard URL, AS WELL AS the LDS where I was teaching the course (and some YouTube links and manufacturer links).

The progressive LDS benefits from knowledgeable consumers - if, for example, it teachs a class that helps them do a better job in selecting, maintaining and using their own equipment, I have to believe that loyalty scores go up, and their willingness to trust advice they may get from the LDS increases. I routinely mention SB to in each of my OW (and AOW) classes, with the knowledge and support of the LDS owner (although some other staff instructors do not). If anything, I think that having new divers use SB encourages them to ask more questions, which allows me to provide better service as a LDS-affiliated instructor, which in turn benefits the LDS.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

My feelings as well. The diver I teach to service their own regs and then sell a kit to is likely to be the one who comes back when it's time for more regs, a new BPW or BC, and gear for his/her family and friends.

 

[DennisW]

Scubaboard is not against the LDS. It is pro-internet and supports a DIY forum. The internet can be a two edged sword. You can use it to your advantage, like Scubatoys, or it can kill you. I like my LDS, but not the really close one here in Sebastian. I travel to Melbourne, FL for service at Hatt's Dive Shop if I need it and for gear, I may buy from there or somewhere else. It depends on several things, not all of which is price. Scubapro has finally come to the realization that you have to join internet sales or die. It's just that simple. I took a course in gear overhaul and repair in 2003 or so. It was an excellent course and I have since done most of the service work on my Scubapro gear if I could get the parts. Getting parts is not easy for the do it yourself guy that has Scubapro gear. Servicing your own gear is not rocket science. But, you should really understand what you are doing before you decide to take this task on. This is your life support system, it is pretty important that it is done correctly.

 

[mathauck0814]

Whether SB is against the LDS or not is immaterial. The fact is that if the shops were doing such a bang-up job, then there wouldn't be any demand for an alternative and they'd be just fine (I don't hear ski shops bitching and whining the way that the LDS do). The LDS has created the environment that they are now finding themselves ill equipped to compete with. It's up to them to make the change. When they do, those of us on SB will sing their praises and adjust our buying behaviors once again.

Those of us who changed the way we buy, changed away from the LDS once, we can just as easily change back to them.

 

[Tigerman]

...
Those of us who changed the way we buy, changed away from the LDS once, we can just as easily change back to them.

I changed my way to buy long before I started scuba diving, however I never did all my shopping online, even in specific categories.
I buy MOST my electronics online, but some accessories is just less hassle to buy locally and its the same thing with how I shop dive gear (and gas).

As to scubaboard being against the LDS? Why the hell would we be, its not like scubaboard is an online dealership..

 

[The Chairman]

Why the hell would we be, its not like scubaboard is an online dealership..

I get approached all the time to be a part of an online dive op, and most just don't get why I refuse to capitalize on this. I don't want the conflict of interest. It's a promise and commitment that I made a long time ago: I will never become the online competition for any LDS.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm sorry Bob, but when you are wrong, you are way wrong!

I love LDSes. I do. My SO, mselenous manages one here in Key Largo. I go out of my way to patronize them and when I do have a gripe, I hardly (if ever) identify the guilty shop. Moreover, I can't tell you how many hours I have spent trying to train dive shops, manufacturers and resorts on how to use the internet for their own benefit. I have often gone out on a limb to tell someone that their message here could be better and then I try to give them some concrete steps to improve their reputation here on ScubaBoard. Ask Jim! He'll tell you that I'm not that shy in trying to help businesses grow and letting them know when they are silting out the place. Think about it: the LDS will be the first to tell you that training is important, yet they feel that they can swim with the sharks on the internet without nary a lesson. It's time for them to make the effort to learn some new skills.

Why do I try? Well, LDSes really aren't my target audience. They're not. Some do take advantage of the great advertising opportunities we have in our local forums, but I understand that most just don't have the resources to spend a $100/month to advertise. No, they aren't vital to ScubaBoard's existence when it comes to our cash flow and in fact, I often feel that we succeed in spite of them and their misplaced ire. Still, they are a very important part of our industry's ecology. If the dive shops go under, our industry and our ability to pursue our passion will be severely curtailed. That would be horrible! Divers need the LDS, ergo ScubaBoard needs the LDS and we'll do whatever we can do to help them out. I mean that!

This isn't just some idle boast on my part either. Take me up on it. Call me. PM me. Email me. Find one of the many classes that I give at DEMA or the other dive shows and get ready to learn. No, I'm not another Social Media Douchebag: I'm the real thing. ScubaBoard can help you get your dive shop into the 21st Century and it will cost you only time. No, I'm not going to waste your money on things that really won't help you in the long run. Jazzed up websites and SEOs are fine but they can only help you so much. They depend on you having a solid understanding of social media. Unfortunately, for many dive shops that amounts to having a Facebook page and Tweeting whenever they remember it. If this is your idea of social media, you are missing out. We can help!

I remember our first DEMA in Houston. I would introduce myself as the owner of the World's largest website devoted to diving and almost everyone would smile and just turn away. It was humbling to find out how many dive professionals had never heard of us. We were indeed the industry's best kept secret. The divers knew about us, but the industry just scratched it's collective head. Today, there are still a few who have never heard of us, but there are many, many more who really don't understand us, you or what the community is all about. They'll spend hours on other social media sites that are not devoted to Scuba Diving and avoid ScubaBoard. ScubaBoard is like a well stoked pond, yet they are content to troll the vast unknown with little if any direction. We've been doing social media for Scuba Diving since before the inception of Facebook! We have the divers the LDSes are looking for if only they will make the effort to learn how to be a part of this awesome community.

Or they continue to gripe about how the world is passing them by.

... but none of that disagrees with what I wrote, Pete. If you, as the owner of ScubaBoard, have ever created an official position pro or anti LDS I haven't read it. What I see you saying above is that you promote how ScubaBoard can help local dive shops improve their business. I agree with that ... I provided two glaring examples of how that has worked out for two businesses that went from being local dive shops to well-known global retailers. ScubaBoard provided the outlet for them to do that by giving them access to a broad audience ... and the glowing reviews they got from happy customers didn't hurt a bit either.

I think we're both saying the same thing, actually ... which is that ScubaBoard can provide an opportunity. It's up to the LDS to either choose or refuse to use it. Either way, the board isn't here to promote their business ... it's here to provide a means for them to ... all the efforts you describe above are aimed toward showing them how.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

I think we're both saying the same thing, actually ...

Indeed we are and we usually do. I was being a bit facetious, which is why I used a smiley.

But lest there is any misunderstanding: I feel that LDSes form the backbone of the Scuba industry, and I support them fully.