Just reading what you write, a can tell you care about your fellow divers or students. I wish that there were more instructors in the world like you, based off of how you describe yourself. That of course, is all I have to go by. I see where your coming from, I too used to take that stand point. Unfortunately we do not make up the mass. So when divers make that kind of comment we cant take it personal. You made your response personal and that it reflected the "Instructor Nation". Thats just not true and Bubbletroubles point (that I quoted in my last response) is valid, as much as I hate it. If has happend once it can and will happen again.Which in itself validates the point. In your case or mine probably not. Then again we cant teach the entire world, just the pond were peeing in lol.
Drift Diving scares me.
- Thread starter shadowcat410
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Just reading what you write, a can tell you care about your fellow divers or students. I wish that there were more instructors in the world like you, based off of how you describe yourself. That of course, is all I have to go by. I see where your coming from, I too used to take that stand point. Unfortunately we do not make up the mass. So when divers make that kind of comment we cant take it personal. You made your response personal and that it reflected the "Instructor Nation". Thats just not true and Bubbletroubles point (that I quoted in my last response) is valid, as much as I hate it. If has happend once it can and will happen again.Which in itself validates the point. In your case or mine probably not. Then again we cant teach the entire world, just the pond were peeing in lol.
Bubbletrubble
Contributor
@Karibelle: Given a student who is unsure about her scuba skills and has revealed some anxiety about mask-clearing...
Would your answers above change if the student performed the skill perfectly (consistent with PADI textbook) every time?
Yes, I have observed instructors "rushing" students through skill assessment/practice. It happens all the time. Large class size and limited time underwater encourage the instructor to watch the student perform the skill once correctly within a given module. The box is checked and onto the next skill. How many repetitions of a dive skill must a student perform before she achieves competency in it -- once, twice, 5 times, 10 times, 20 times, 50 times? How many repetitions to achieve mastery?
I suspect that what I construe as "rushing" is what you and your instructional agency would deem "mastery." Perhaps it's just a semantic issue. Perhaps it's a difference in teaching philosophy.
FWIW, I have no doubt that in real life you are a nice person and a competent dive instructor by PADI standards.
(I'm not a certified dive pro. As such, does it make me "uniquely unqualified" to make this last statement?
)
- For a scuba refresher course in a pool, how many times might you request the student to clear her mask? Would you ask her to do a mask remove-replace-clear? If so, how many times? Would you have the student do any other exercises related to mask-clearing?
- If you were asked to be a private DM for the diver on a typical Cozumel drift dive with other paying customers on the boat, how many times would you request that the student clear her mask? Would you ask her to do a mask remove-replace-clear? If so, how many times? Would you have the student do any other exercises related to mask-clearing?
Would your answers above change if the student performed the skill perfectly (consistent with PADI textbook) every time?
Yes, I have observed instructors "rushing" students through skill assessment/practice. It happens all the time. Large class size and limited time underwater encourage the instructor to watch the student perform the skill once correctly within a given module. The box is checked and onto the next skill. How many repetitions of a dive skill must a student perform before she achieves competency in it -- once, twice, 5 times, 10 times, 20 times, 50 times? How many repetitions to achieve mastery?
I suspect that what I construe as "rushing" is what you and your instructional agency would deem "mastery." Perhaps it's just a semantic issue. Perhaps it's a difference in teaching philosophy.
FWIW, I have no doubt that in real life you are a nice person and a competent dive instructor by PADI standards.
(I'm not a certified dive pro. As such, does it make me "uniquely unqualified" to make this last statement?
)Thomthumb
Contributor
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Ok, after reading everyone elses suggestions, here are mine. Locate a dive shop in your area that has an deep indoor pool (as deep as you can find). 10 foot or so. With all of your gear on practice your buoyancy first by just laying on the bottom of the pool and slowly inflating your BC until you can get yourself floating just above the bottom. And practice finning as much as you can just staying off the bottom. Learn your own buoyancy characteristics (what makes you float). Try even just resting and not moving on the bottom to relax and get your breathing correct. Fresh or salt water won't change your buoyancy, it just affects just your weights. Now for drift diving. It is just like floating except the current is pushing you along. For the first few dives, hire a DM buddy and don't worry about looking around. Work on relaxing and becoming confortable. Don't push it and all will come naturally. Relax and don't push yourself at all. It will become more enjoyable.
So Saltwater or freshwater won't effect your buoyancy just weights... Thats funny...
soltari675
Contributor
I believe Thomthumb was just suggesting a way to work on buoyancy. Obviously you need more weight for salt water, however once you get the weight right, the actual buoyancy control is pretty much the same underwater, whether it is fresh or salt. He's saying the way you control your buoyancy underwater is the same.
Let's get off the flaming comments guys. The point of a question is to get help, not argue with one another about who is more experienced or qualified to help.
A game a dive buddy and I play when diving locally, and you can do it in a pool too, is dive as close to the bottom as we can without touching or stirring up anything. We have very very silty floors in the quarries and such. Doing this we have gotten much better in a short amount of time with buoyancy. Of course there is always room for improvement and I am by no means a master at it. But just an idea to help practice.
Let's get off the flaming comments guys. The point of a question is to get help, not argue with one another about who is more experienced or qualified to help.
A game a dive buddy and I play when diving locally, and you can do it in a pool too, is dive as close to the bottom as we can without touching or stirring up anything. We have very very silty floors in the quarries and such. Doing this we have gotten much better in a short amount of time with buoyancy. Of course there is always room for improvement and I am by no means a master at it. But just an idea to help practice.
freewillie
Contributor
Back to the OP question, the only way to make diving less scary is to try and dive as often as possible. There really is no other way to improve buoyancy control. Until that time a private DM would be my advice to improve safety or lessen anxiety or both.
I would bet the reason shadowcat is scared of drift diving is also fear of having to dive completely on her own. For my $0.02 I would practice as much as possible and consider advance OW classes.
Now, there is nothing magical about peak performance buoyancy class. Won't make you instantly better diver. Will make you aware of how peak buoyancy should feel. It's hard to practice something when your not sure what to practice. Going out and repeating bad habits with bad weights will just make you frustrated.
Some may say complete waste of money, you don't really learn anything you didn't already get in basic OW training. True, you should have basic skills already down. But what it will do is shorten the learning curve.
Also, underwater navigation skills are really helpful. My first dive after AOW classes I actually felt like a better diver not because I had PPB training, but because I knew exactly where I was on a new dive site and how to get back to shore. In fact, the group was looking at their compasses at turn around, and I was pointing "home is this way.". No trust me dives, if I had become separated no big deal. In fact some of the other divers needed to follow me!
Just one other note. Pay careful attention during predive briefing. You should know exactly what the procedures should be if you become separated. You should at minimum have whistle and SMB as essential drift diving gear. If you don't know what to do if you become separated during drift dive that is a you problem. You should have been paying attention or if you don't know ask. There is no excuse for getting in the water until you are properly briefed.
Try it again and have fun and safe dive
I would bet the reason shadowcat is scared of drift diving is also fear of having to dive completely on her own. For my $0.02 I would practice as much as possible and consider advance OW classes.
Now, there is nothing magical about peak performance buoyancy class. Won't make you instantly better diver. Will make you aware of how peak buoyancy should feel. It's hard to practice something when your not sure what to practice. Going out and repeating bad habits with bad weights will just make you frustrated.
Some may say complete waste of money, you don't really learn anything you didn't already get in basic OW training. True, you should have basic skills already down. But what it will do is shorten the learning curve.
Also, underwater navigation skills are really helpful. My first dive after AOW classes I actually felt like a better diver not because I had PPB training, but because I knew exactly where I was on a new dive site and how to get back to shore. In fact, the group was looking at their compasses at turn around, and I was pointing "home is this way.". No trust me dives, if I had become separated no big deal. In fact some of the other divers needed to follow me!
Just one other note. Pay careful attention during predive briefing. You should know exactly what the procedures should be if you become separated. You should at minimum have whistle and SMB as essential drift diving gear. If you don't know what to do if you become separated during drift dive that is a you problem. You should have been paying attention or if you don't know ask. There is no excuse for getting in the water until you are properly briefed.
Try it again and have fun and safe dive
A couple or our new Yank jet fighters rumbled over my place a few minutes apart just before JAG
was due on TV today and I figured if only understood math 1&2, phys and chem in high school it
could have been me, well an earlier model anyway, but instead I learned to clear a diving mask
and make concise legible posts on here, so I figure this left behind issue needs to be adressed
and other than confronting of your intentions, it seems like you know what's going on anyway
so go diving and enjoy yourself
was due on TV today and I figured if only understood math 1&2, phys and chem in high school it
could have been me, well an earlier model anyway, but instead I learned to clear a diving mask
and make concise legible posts on here, so I figure this left behind issue needs to be adressed
and other than confronting of your intentions, it seems like you know what's going on anyway
so go diving and enjoy yourself
Got OW certified in 2009. First dive was in 2010 in Playa w/ Dive Mike. (should have gone to Coz, yes - i know!)
Yes, I need more practice w/ my bouyancy in salt water.
This is normal for noobs right? Do I really have to totally geek out on scuba to enjoy it? As I will only be able to dive once a year? I just want to be able to enjoy it and not stress because I'm afraid of being "lost at sea" again. The Tarpon experience was incredible yes, but I've been to afraid to dive again.
What should I try next? Suggestions?
OK - as one newbie to another (I still consider myself a newbie!) - what worked for me was to go on a couple of dives where the objective was to just have a slow fin around a shallow site and get the feel for diving.
I did hire a instructor to do it one to one (and was lucky most of my training was also one to one) but we sat and discussed what I wanted to get out of the dives. We didn't practise skills (mask removal/air sharing and so on) because in the early days I found that a distraction and a 'worry' because I knew we were going to practise it and was anticipating it until we did it which impacted on the rest of the dive.
I set my goals as a slow relaxed dive, where I could think about bouyancy, how I felt in the water and just get used to the feeling of being underwater. No pressures of having to swim a particular route and back, no strong currents, no 'anticipation' of having to perform skills, and no having to chase other divers or to keep up with a group.
It made a big difference for me - good luck and enjoy your diving. - Phil
OP
shadowcat410
Guest
Phil, yes, that sounds exactly like something that would make me relax too. No route, no rush, no worrying that I was ruining the other divers dive and not worrying that the DM would have to "babysit" me.
You guys... THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! It is so great to have all of your different opinions and experiences. That's the point of this forum, right? I really have a lot to think about. I have considered (eventually) getting my AOW but definitely would like to get more dives under my belt, not feel like such a noob and I now know that I don't need to fear drift diving. I know I can get my bouyancy issues mastered, fresh water or salt water.
Now I'm really itching to go diving again. Yes, there is a bit of anxiety because I dive w/out a regular buddy, but many of you do I'm sure and you're fine. The point is... I shouldn't have to "trust a stranger"... I must practice these skills and feel confident and comfortable underwater and trust MYSELF (and definitely work on my navigation skills so I won't fear being lost from the group).
I want to thank you all again. I have read every reply here and now I feel so much better. YOU ROCK!
I will definitely keep you updated and post here on my progress. And hopefully share with you some successful dives.
-Angela
You guys... THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! It is so great to have all of your different opinions and experiences. That's the point of this forum, right? I really have a lot to think about. I have considered (eventually) getting my AOW but definitely would like to get more dives under my belt, not feel like such a noob and I now know that I don't need to fear drift diving. I know I can get my bouyancy issues mastered, fresh water or salt water.
Now I'm really itching to go diving again. Yes, there is a bit of anxiety because I dive w/out a regular buddy, but many of you do I'm sure and you're fine. The point is... I shouldn't have to "trust a stranger"... I must practice these skills and feel confident and comfortable underwater and trust MYSELF (and definitely work on my navigation skills so I won't fear being lost from the group).
I want to thank you all again. I have read every reply here and now I feel so much better. YOU ROCK!
I will definitely keep you updated and post here on my progress. And hopefully share with you some successful dives.
-Angela
Juardis
Contributor
As someone who recently battled the demons you speak of shadowcat, I'll tell you what I did in hopes that it helps.
1. Practice in a pool if you can, and by practice, that also means getting your weight correct, not just hovering in a 2-3 foot span.
2. Take a perfect buoyancy course, not necessarily to perfect your buoyancy, but to give you confidence and help you get your weight right. I went to no weight in the pool for my course and the instructor advised me to use 4-6 lbs in the ocean. I used 6 lbs but the very last dive, 6 lbs was too heavy.
3. If you cannot practice or take a buoyancy course, then I'd suggest easy dives while on vacation, at least at first. Go with a resort that includes diving like Sandals for instance. The very first dive you do with them is always a shallow water dive (20-30 ft). You won't necessarily do a safety stop if you don't go below 30 ft, but you can get a feel for your weight. After the checkout dive, you can decide to go with the resort certification people or the OW divers, where the resort certified divers are limited to 30-40 ft. The OW dives are generally not strenuous and if you do mess up your safety stop it won't be the end of the world. But it is an opportunity to get experience. If you dive twice a day for as much as you can, you'll gain confidence throughout the week and by the end you'll be much improved and ready to book another vacation as soon as possible. Edit: Anyway, back to diving with a resort. The dives are slow and they're limited to 30-40 minutes and they're guided. Everyone descends with a DM, follows the DM, and ascends with the DM. It removes a lot of variables that make one anxious as a new diver. You don't worry about cutting everyone's dive short because you generally don't run out of air before the DM calls the dive.
4. The thing that REALLY helped my wife (just as newb as me) and I was when we figured out WHEN to dump all the air out of our BC and HOW to dump the air. For us, the WHEN was 30 ft and less than 1500 psi. The HOW was more of an issue for my wife, but you certainly need to know how to get ALL the air out, whether that means you go vertical and hold your inflator hose above your head and release or whatever. But get the air out. That was half the battle for us, me because I forgot, her because she didn't know how. If I'm properly weighted, I can go to 30 ft before adding any air in my BC then add a puff or two once there to help with buoyancy and simply use breathing at that depth from that point on. Then it's just a matter of remembering to dump it at 30 ft and 1500 psi so I don't inadvertently rise to the surface if I go shallower.
Your mileage may vary. Good luck and have fun.
1. Practice in a pool if you can, and by practice, that also means getting your weight correct, not just hovering in a 2-3 foot span.
2. Take a perfect buoyancy course, not necessarily to perfect your buoyancy, but to give you confidence and help you get your weight right. I went to no weight in the pool for my course and the instructor advised me to use 4-6 lbs in the ocean. I used 6 lbs but the very last dive, 6 lbs was too heavy.
3. If you cannot practice or take a buoyancy course, then I'd suggest easy dives while on vacation, at least at first. Go with a resort that includes diving like Sandals for instance. The very first dive you do with them is always a shallow water dive (20-30 ft). You won't necessarily do a safety stop if you don't go below 30 ft, but you can get a feel for your weight. After the checkout dive, you can decide to go with the resort certification people or the OW divers, where the resort certified divers are limited to 30-40 ft. The OW dives are generally not strenuous and if you do mess up your safety stop it won't be the end of the world. But it is an opportunity to get experience. If you dive twice a day for as much as you can, you'll gain confidence throughout the week and by the end you'll be much improved and ready to book another vacation as soon as possible. Edit: Anyway, back to diving with a resort. The dives are slow and they're limited to 30-40 minutes and they're guided. Everyone descends with a DM, follows the DM, and ascends with the DM. It removes a lot of variables that make one anxious as a new diver. You don't worry about cutting everyone's dive short because you generally don't run out of air before the DM calls the dive.
4. The thing that REALLY helped my wife (just as newb as me) and I was when we figured out WHEN to dump all the air out of our BC and HOW to dump the air. For us, the WHEN was 30 ft and less than 1500 psi. The HOW was more of an issue for my wife, but you certainly need to know how to get ALL the air out, whether that means you go vertical and hold your inflator hose above your head and release or whatever. But get the air out. That was half the battle for us, me because I forgot, her because she didn't know how. If I'm properly weighted, I can go to 30 ft before adding any air in my BC then add a puff or two once there to help with buoyancy and simply use breathing at that depth from that point on. Then it's just a matter of remembering to dump it at 30 ft and 1500 psi so I don't inadvertently rise to the surface if I go shallower.
Your mileage may vary. Good luck and have fun.
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