Fatality off Bald Head Island - NC

[aHeavyD]

You got the facts in my report, I'm not going to explain anything on this forum. And that's the facts.

For people wanting to learn more. I would suggest taking a stress rescue class if you have not done so.

For more people want to learn more about tech diving, ox tox, CNS and more. Please buy Exploration and Mixed Gas Diving Encyclopedia, It will answer your questions.

I would have most likely contributed more but after reading the Wilmington report. The great people of this forum are drilling the victims for questions. This is a public forum. And yes their friends and family are reading this as was Don's. As a member I should volunteer info when I want, not be pressured with hounding questions. But when someone says wait for them got get all the info that is not good enough for the people on this forum. And hearing it will be old news if they wait too long. If a victim shares info at anytime it would be news that people might learn from. I done, band me if you want.

 

[mjmason1]

aHeavyD thanks for posting a clear explanation of the incident. From your description you did everything you could to try and save your friend and dive buddy. This is a very heavy load you are carrying. Please consider talking to a professsional. You never know how this will affect your life later. Be well and dive safely.

 

[fpsndiver]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/399521-wilmington-incident-16-oct-11.html

I've been reading this thread as I lost one of my friends on this same site 3 days before. I have noticed several major areas where these inicidents diverge in thier details and causes of the accident. I can speak from first hand knowledge in one case as I was there, but in this case until highlandfarmwv made some further details known I did not know how far apart the circumstances of these incidents are. My friend Don was very qualified, trained and prepared for this dive with the proper equipment, techniques and mind set for the dive. I am convinced that Don's problem was medically related and could have occured working out at the gym.

Reading the details that highlandfarmwv provided, I'm pretty sure that Amy was not ready for the dive in training(open water maybe advanced training with fewer than 50 dives by her own admission) or experience(obvious to anyone reading highlandfarmwv's description of Amy's dive plan to not stay long, stay around the anchor, not look for teeth, not use a computer), not prepared with the correct equipment( single tank, no pony, no reel, no computer) and not diving with the right mind set as demonstrated by the failure to monitor air supply, failure to follow a reel line back to the anchor line, diving solo and deep with a lack of experience in both and not utilizing a buddy when one was offered by two different people.

I've dove many times in North Carolina and while not all require you to have a buddy, most require you to take at least a pony or doubles if your diving solo. I'm not looking to point any fingers as Amy was by all accounts an adult, capable of making her own decisions, but in this case the dive shop/boat crew need to shoulder some of the blame as they allowed her to get on the boat to start with and do the dive solo without the proper qualifications/equipment/mind set. My understanding is that the boat captain that day was her husband, who should have known she was not ready for this dive. They did have a duty to tell her "No, you can't do this dive by yourself".

No one else on the boat should feel any guilt at all, as they would not have been in a position to know what Amy was getting herself into based on her training, lack of experience and inadequate gear configuration.

Sorry if I've hurt anyone's feelings, and my condolences to Amy's loved ones, but this was an avoidable [-]accident[/-] chain of events that could have been stopped at any of several points.

This quote was from the thread Wilmington Incident It was liked by "aHeavyD" above. You posted a lot of information about your incident, which is great, and gives some insight. I'm curious though, why the ommission of the mix? That ommission rouses speculation that there is something you don't want people to know. You don't mind the speculation about Amy's death, you put the 'like' on the post where one of your buddies posted about his speculation about her death, and then you come on here saying you are not gonna say which mix was in use at 110' fsw? I sure hope the USCG analyzed the mix, if there was any left to analyze.

I dive this site often, I live here, I also know that a lot of guys push ppO2 to keep their deco time to a minimum. pp02 pushing is often done on mixed (rec/tech) charters so that the tech divers run closer profiles to the rec divers, so that the boat is not unnecessarily delayed from moving to another spot. You were on a mixed charter. I crewed that boat under their previous owners. Some of that pp02 pushing is well beyond recomended limits. I know personally of a group of Wilmington divers on private boats running EAN40 to 110 fsw (that is 1.74 pp02 for those that don't know how to figure it out). The fact that the mix is ommitted from your report leaves most readers of this thread to speculate that excessive pp02 was a factor, and there was an oxygen toxicity seizure. The only thing that was said by y'all in this thread was that, "the mix was analyzed at the shop and on the boat", but the results of that analysis are purposefully ommitted. In my line of work, an ommission is called a "clue".

There is no need to lecture me about mixed gases for technical diving, or to refer me out to web sites to read about it. I am a local Wilmington Technical Diver, and I mean to inform you, knowing what goes on, that when we have a death like this, and if you know there were other causal factors that you are purposely ommitting, that it is not fair to the dive community or dive operators for you to do this. I agree that something seemed to go physically wrong with your buddy at depth, exactly what that was is the question, and you have some of the answers but refuse to give them. Simultaneously you like your other buddy's post in regards to speculation about Amy's death?

While the relatively shallow depths may lead most to exclude Oxygen Toxicity as a potential culprit, the profiles and plans I have seen run on this site (both on charters and private boats) can certainly yield an Oxygen Toxicity Event. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but from an objective point of view, this ommission leaves this incident open to speculation, and such speculation is inherently unfair to the local dive community, charters, and other divers that may be interested in diving Disneyland. Furthermore, if this was a toxicity event, it would give the local community ammunition to deter the divers that are currently exhibiting similar behaviors to cease that activity before it kills them. Again, this is not intended to hurt your feelings, nor the feelings of any family/friends whom may happen to read this thread. If I made an error in my own dive planning that led/contributed to my death, I'd certainly want my buddies to be brutally honest about it. I think I read that you guys are cave divers? If that is so, then you understand about honestly de-briefing dives and accident analysis? There are failures and miscommunications and poor planning on even the best of dives. There is no perfect dive, there is no such thing.

 

[ahava]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/399521-wilmington-incident-16-oct-11.html

This quote was from the thread Wilmington Incident It was liked by "aHeavyD" above. You posted a lot of information about your incident, which is great, and gives some insight. I'm curious though, why the ommission of the mix? That ommission rouses speculation that there is something you don't want people to know. You don't mind the speculation about Amy's death, you put the 'like' on the post where one of your buddies posted about his speculation about her death, and then you come on here saying you are not gonna say which mix was in use at 110' fsw? I sure hope the USCG analyzed the mix, if there was any left to analyze.

I dive this site often, I live here, I also know that a lot of guys push ppO2 to keep their deco time to a minimum. pp02 pushing is often done on mixed (rec/tech) charters so that the tech divers run closer profiles to the rec divers, so that the boat is not unnecessarily delayed from moving to another spot. You were on a mixed charter. I crewed that boat under their previous owners. Some of that pp02 pushing is well beyond recomended limits. I know personally of a group of Wilmington divers on private boats running EAN40 to 110 fsw (that is 1.74 pp02 for those that don't know how to figure it out). The fact that the mix is ommitted from your report leaves most readers of this thread to speculate that excessive pp02 was a factor, and there was an oxygen toxicity seizure. The only thing that was said by y'all in this thread was that, "the mix was analyzed at the shop and on the boat", but the results of that analysis are purposefully ommitted. In my line of work, an ommission is called a "clue".

There is no need to lecture me about mixed gases for technical diving, or to refer me out to web sites to read about it. I am a local Wilmington Technical Diver, and I mean to inform you, knowing what goes on, that when we have a death like this, and if you know there were other causal factors that you are purposely ommitting, that it is not fair to the dive community or dive operators for you to do this. I agree that something seemed to go physically wrong with your buddy at depth, exactly what that was is the question, and you have some of the answers but refuse to give them. Simultaneously you like your other buddy's post in regards to speculation about Amy's death?

While the relatively shallow depths may lead most to exclude Oxygen Toxicity as a potential culprit, the profiles and plans I have seen run on this site (both on charters and private boats) can certainly yield an Oxygen Toxicity Event. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but from an objective point of view, this ommission leaves this incident open to speculation, and such speculation is inherently unfair to the local dive community, charters, and other divers that may be interested in diving Disneyland. Furthermore, if this was a toxicity event, it would give the local community ammunition to deter the divers that are currently exhibiting similar behaviors to cease that activity before it kills them. Again, this is not intended to hurt your feelings, nor the feelings of any family/friends whom may happen to read this thread. If I made an error in my own dive planning that led/contributed to my death, I'd certainly want my buddies to be brutally honest about it. I think I read that you guys are cave divers? If that is so, then you undertand about honestly de-briefing dives and accident analysis? There are failures and miscommunications and poor planning on even the best of dives. There is no perfect dive, there is no such thing.

If you noticed AheavyD's origional post was written days after the accident and was still dealing with with this loss. I was there and know the mix and know he was under the recreational (standard) limit of 1.4 ppo2. Since AheavyD decided he did not want to give out all the details at that time I will honor those wishes. When he is ready to give them he will. BTW all the details and specifics were given to the USCG

 

[Scubasw]

This is in response to #33 fpsndiver

I mean to inform you, knowing what goes on, that when we have a death like this, and if you know there were other causal factors that you are purposely ommitting, that it is not fair to the dive community or dive operators for you to do this.

Nothing was "ommited" by AheavyD, myself or AHava in our contributions to this board. Myself and AHeavyD made full written reports that were turned over to the Coast Guard, We have been fully upfront with all the information with not only the Coast Guard but his family, wife and daughter. Don's dive was within limits in all respects. He was a trained and experienced technical diver thru trimix and was also a Veterinarian who well knew the hazards of O2 toxcicity. His dive plan was well within a 1.4 PO2 limit.

This quote was from the thread Wilmington Incident It was liked by "aHeavyD" above.

Yes we have liked each others posts. We've all known each other for years, it takes a mouse click to indicate to each other that we have read each others posts. Your inference that something is being "purposefully ommitted" is offensive and disrespectful.

I think I read that you guys are cave divers? If that is so, then you undertand about honestly de-briefing dives and accident analysis? There are failures and miscommunications and poor planning on even the best of dives.

AHeavyD is the only one of us who is "Cave Trained" and no where have any us claimed otherwise. AHeavyD and Don both undertook to get tech training up to the trimix level and have completed many dives at that level. As you can see both AHava and myself are recreational instructors. We are all fully aware of the need to honestly debrief dives and accident analysis, that doesn't mean we have to answer every question some one else asks if we feel we have already answered the question. The mix question has already been answered.

I know personally of a group of Wilmington divers on private boats running EAN40 to 110 fsw (that is 1.74 pp02 for those that don't know how to figure it out). The fact that the mix is ommitted from your report leaves most readers of this thread to speculate that excessive pp02 was a factor, and there was an oxygen toxicity seizure.

Just because you know of a group of divers who knowingly violate well established procedures/limits, does not mean you should try and paint others with that brush. Our dive group is all in their late 40's and 50's, family men and always dive conservative.

You don't mind the speculation about Amy's death, you put the 'like' on the post where one of your buddies posted about his speculation about her death

I made the post on that thread about Amy's death. I don't think I was speculating. I was drawing what I believe were very valid concerns/thoughts/conclusions based on the information provided by a 1st hand witness to Amy's actions before the dive & "dive plan" and what should have been obvious to anyone working for her, never mind her husband/Boat Captain and the crew who would have all presumably known her since they worked for her dive store. I based my conclusions on being a recreational scuba instructor for the last 12 years and having 15 years diving and training with divers of all levels.

 

[fpsndiver]

If any of you posted the mix in this thread, I can't seem to find it. I have seen the ppO2 shenanigans first hand. I have first hand local knowledge of this ledge, and the divers that frequent it. I asked one simple question, and you all have still not answered it.

So, what was the BOTTOM MIX?

 

[ahava]

If any of you posted the mix in this thread, I can't seem to find it. I have seen the ppO2 shenanigans first hand. I have first hand local knowledge of this ledge, and the divers that frequent it. I asked one simple question, and you all have still not answered it.

So, what was the BOTTOM MIX?

Like I said, aheavyd didnt want to get into all that at the time of the origional post. Then people started pushing to get this magical number before he wanted to analyze the the accident here.

 

[CaptJT]

I have read the report by aheavyD and while it does give lots of answers it leaves me with more questions. The mix being a major one since it appears to be an oxtox to me. The shaking could be a sign of uncontrollable muscle twitches and the "staring" is also commonly seen during treatment for DCS when on 100% in the chamber both are symptoms of an oxtox. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would let someone purge their tanks dry, I have not heard of any agency teach that for a rescue. I'm not an instructor but some of you instructors answering here at the end can help me out with that. Pulled the quote below for accuracy on my statements. Not trying to question anyones actions just trying to put it all together to where it is understandable.

I understand the USCG will be looking at all the accidents around there as diving appears to have gotten out of hand. I often collect accident reports for speaking engagements and accident interest for avoiding them. I have found that often what is posted on forums is not what I find in the reports and one needs all the correct details to figure out what really happened. It usually takes 4-6 months for the report to be completely finished and the USCG will not notify anyone when it is done, not even the Captain of the vessel unless they pull his lic. for some reason. You must contact the USCG through the FOIA and ask for the completed report with all the particulars. You will receive it weeks later with all personal info blacked out.

Dive safe out there

He’s not looking me in the eyes and had a distant stare, he was shaking slightly. He was still breathing but holding the lines with two hands which wasn’t normal to see him holding the line like that. He then reached up and started to purge his octo. At this time I’m grabbing his pressure gauge and he had plenty of air. He’s still holding his octo but not looking anywhere but straight. In this mass of bubbles around him I then held him and started moving up the line with him. Remember we are at about 90 feet. As he held the octo fully depressed I could not see his face well, I thought he could still be breathing. As I moved up the line in a controlled accent for both of us, venting both of us as we went. I knew I had to get him to the surface and would blow thru my mandatory stops as we went. During the accent I switch off my long hose to have it ready as I could see his tanks were going to go empty before the surface from the full purge he was still doing. There was a mass of bubbles around us from this full purge and it was still hard to see his face and eyes. His tanks went empty at about 25 feet and at this time I knew he was unconscious as I had to remove his hand and reg and try to force my reg in his mouth and also continue the full purge that he started. After another 10 or 15 second of full purge of my own tanks I could see no response and stop giving him my own air.

 

[aHeavyD]

I'm curious though, why the ommission of the mix? That ommission rouses speculation that there is something you don't want people to know. ...you come on here saying you are not gonna say which mix was in use at 110' fsw? I sure hope the USCG analyzed the mix, if there was any left to analyze.

Yes the coast guard knows everything. I’m glad you’re trying to look for something more but it’s not.

I dive this site often, I live here, I also know that a lot of guys push ppO2 to keep their deco time to a minimum. pp02 pushing is often done on mixed (rec/tech) charters so that the tech divers run closer profiles to the rec divers, so that the boat is not unnecessarily delayed from moving to another spot. You were on a mixed charter. I crewed that boat under their previous owners. Some of that pp02 pushing is well beyond recomended limits. I know personally of a group of Wilmington divers on private boats running EAN40 to 110 fsw (that is 1.74 pp02 for those that don't know how to figure it out). The fact that the mix is ommitted from your report leaves most readers of this thread to speculate that excessive pp02 was a factor, and there was an oxygen toxicity seizure. The only thing that was said by y'all in this thread was that, "the mix was analyzed at the shop and on the boat", but the results of that analysis are purposefully ommitted. In my line of work, an ommission is called a "clue".

If you were a crew member on a boat and you let people off the boat diving to 100 foot on 40% you should have been fired for allowing it to happen. I or any of the people I dive with do not dive above and beyond the limits. If you do you will not be diving with us. I’ve had people wanting to join some of our trips. And they happen to be dangerous divers. I will tell them no to their face that you can’t go with us.

While the relatively shallow depths may lead most to exclude Oxygen Toxicity as a potential culprit, the profiles and plans I have seen run on this site (both on charters and private boats) can certainly yield an Oxygen Toxicity Event. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but from an objective point of view, this ommission leaves this incident open to speculation, and such speculation is inherently unfair to the local dive community, charters, and other divers that may be interested in diving Disneyland. Furthermore, if this was a toxicity event, it would give the local community ammunition to deter the divers that are currently exhibiting similar behaviors to cease that activity before it kills them. Again, this is not intended to hurt your feelings, nor the feelings of any family/friends whom may happen to read this thread. If I made an error in my own dive planning that led/contributed to my death, I'd certainly want my buddies to be brutally honest about it. I think I read that you guys are cave divers? If that is so, then you understand about honestly de-briefing dives and accident analysis? There are failures and miscommunications and poor planning on even the best of dives. There is no perfect dive, there is no such thing.

I’m the only one that cave dives. Also this was a perfect dive and I was by his side when something went wrong. If I could do it over again I would not change a thing about the mix, gear or dive plan. It was by the book type of dive.

 

[aHeavyD]

If any of you posted the mix in this thread, I can't seem to find it. The fact that you get this riled up over a simple question is curious. You all have belittled other folks on here who have asked some legitimate questions. You aren't the only 'technical' divers on this board. That was the point. I'm not trying to paint anyone with any brush. I have crewed boats here, including the Hawksbill, under her previous owner. I have seen the ppO2 shenanigans first hand. I have first hand local knowledge of this ledge, and the divers that frequent it. I asked one simple question, and you all have still not answered it.

I never posted the mix. But everybody except here knows it. Yes everybody on the boat, crew, captain and dive store owner knows. The coast guard, family and close friends know. All my tech and cave instructors know. All of Don’s instructors know. Not one person said we were diving outside the planned dive.

The mix is under 1.4 ppo2. It was also the very first dive of the first day of diving.

It’s sad you have seen many shenanigans of people abusing the ppo2 limits. This however is not the way any of us dive.

So, what was the BOTTOM MIX?

Once again diving bottom mix past 1.4 ppo2 on technical dives is crazy. Steve and Al were just agreeing as a team and friends we don’t do stupid diving. Steve and Al are very good instructors. I’m sure they would say something to us or not dive with you if you dove past the limits. I don’t know anybody that dives like what you stated or would never even join them on a dive.