New to Double Hose Diving

[DB12]

Hello Guys,

I'm not a new diver but I've recently started to get more and more interested into double hose regulators, so I hope you can give me a hand to start off with this kind of equipment.
By all means I have tried to do quite a bit of research prior to this post and as I understand the only way to go is vintage double hose regulators as the more modern Aqualung Mistral is POS and the Mentor unfortunately is not available for purchase to the public but only the military (if anyone knows how to get hold of the latter I'd appreciate to know). I'm not strictly interested in vintage diving as a whole but rather limited to the use of double hose regulators, therefore keep in mind I'd be using this equipment along with modern gear.

Anyhow I'll get to the point, please excuse the quantity of questions but it really is a new 'world' for me:

-To start off with are there any guides/books/information on the subject which I should read and that I may have missed ?
-Where should I get started ? I have found this site (Vintage Scuba - Vintage Scuba Gear at Vintage Double Hose)
-Are there any safety/operational concerns to be noted when using this kind of equipment ?

Thanks to anyone who wishes to help out !

 

[Ed Palma]

There's a lot of good info here on this sub-forum, but as you get deeper into vintage diving, you'll start hanging out in the other sites more often. A lot of the folks who post here are more active on the VDH and VSS sites.

I also recently started DH diving, and chronicled my start in an earlier thread: LINK

The books listed in the VDH site are indeed must-reads

 

[DB12]

Hi Ed,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and linking me your thread, I'm going through it right now as we speak and I'm sure it will answer some of my many questions.
I've just signed up on the VDH forums aswell so I'll be lurking overthere too

Would you reccommend those reads even tough I am interested in diving a DH regulator only (along with modern equipment) and not as a 'true' vintage diver ?

 

[cloudflint]

Hi Ed,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and linking me your thread, I'm going through it right now as we speak and I'm sure it will answer some of my many questions.
I've just signed up on the VDH forums aswell so I'll be lurking overthere too

Would you reccommend those reads even tough I am interested in diving a DH regulator only (along with modern equipment) and not as a 'true' vintage diver ?

I dive a twin hose with modern equipment, Ive found vintage dive literature is mostly all still relevant even when diving modern equipment. The stuff about regulator positioning, clearing techniques e.t.c is something you should read up on if diving a twin hose even with modern equipment. Also even if using a BC, reading about techniques for use in no-BC diving can be very beneficial to your diving in general. I wear a buddy pioneer when im diving but thanks to reading alot of vintage diving books and stuff and fiddling around with weighting I find I pretty much never need to use it which is a wonderful feeling.

 

[herman]

Welcome to DH diving. The biggest issue you have with diving a DH with modern gear (SPGs/Octos/BCs with inflators) is the old DH regs were never designed to accommodate those items, there is simply no place to connect most of them. The best option that you currently have is to get a US Divers DA Aquamaster and have it equipped with a Phoenix nozzle. These are sold on Vintage Double Hose (aka VDH). A USD Royal AM will also work as will a couple of Voits but they tend to cost a lot more for the base reg and there is no need to spend the extra money. With the Phoenix, you can add all the modern attachments you like. So far I have not had a dive shop not allow me to dive my Phoenix with my Express Tech (more below). The good news is you can usually buy a DA, fully restore it with all new hoses and internals, add a Phoenix and still have less money in it than buying a used modern Mistral…..and have a much better performing, better looking reg to boot.
The next issue with modern gear is the position of a DH reg MUST be correct for it to operate at it's best. It must be placed much lower on the back than most modern BCs will allow, in addition, jacket type BCs and many back inflates including BP/wings tend to hold the tank up too far off your back for proper operation. So far the best modern BC that any of us have found is the Zeagle Express Tech and even then it needs a special modification to make it work well with a DH reg. The beauty of the ET is you can remove the wing very easily, making it much more “vintage like” if you are lucky enough to be somewhere the dive op is open to the idea- which is the way I dive it most of the time.
My best suggestion is to find someone off one of these boards who regularly dives the old gear and is willing to take you on a few dives to help you get the hang of diving them. They are different and it takes some getting use to them but for me, they are my preferred reg and I have many to choose from.

If you anywhere close to me, I am more than happy to take you on a few DH dives in a local quarry.

 

[INFIDELxx]

Herman makes some very important points in reference to mixing vintage and modern equipment. This is one of many rigs i use for those situations. It is a VDH restored Royal Master W/Phoenix,Scott Mark 15 DSV, Oxycheq #30 And a Vintage style harness with a modern twist. The harness can be acquired here: http://www.vintagedoublehose.com/st...dex&cPath=25&zenid=c5lp91nakflhuobnr4bs3ce856

 

[Ed Palma]

Hi Ed,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and linking me your thread, I'm going through it right now as we speak and I'm sure it will answer some of my many questions.
I've just signed up on the VDH forums aswell so I'll be lurking overthere too

Would you reccommend those reads even tough I am interested in diving a DH regulator only (along with modern equipment) and not as a 'true' vintage diver ?

I would definitely still recommend those books. I got my "Basic Scuba" for $6 It's great, even if just for the regulator section. The other sections and the other books are great for dealing with vintage technique. Even if you don't plan to use it, its great to have it in your arsenal. As a DH diver, you sort of become an ambassador of a classic way of diving, so even if you remain an eclectic diver (as I mostly am - or need to be), you will be armed with the knowledge that can help dispel some misconceptions about diving with a double-hose regulator.

Don't just lurk over in VDH. Introduce yourself and feel free to ask ANY question Most people would be happy to have you there

 

[Gilldiver]

Who says you can’t mix old and new?

Be careful, it is an infection and may lead you towards poverty, or difficult financial discussions with your significant other when the question of how many tanks and regulators do you need to have.

 

[Ed Palma]

Be careful, it is an infection and may lead you towards poverty, or difficult financial discussions with your significant other when the question of how many tanks and regulators do you need to have.

This is so, so true...

 

[DB12]

Thanks for the great input guys, its definitely appreciated. As with everything the first steps are crucial to get started in the right direction, especially when its something you know so little about.

As herman pointed out diving with someone else who already has experience in vintage gear is definitely something I'd consider doing. Unfortunately at the moment I am in Italy (Milan) and don't know if anyone overhere dives this kind of equipment, I'll try to do some research on the matter, yet if thats not the case I will be in Florida from January/February 2012 onwards where I guess it will be much easier to find someone acquainted with vintage gear ... which would give me anyway plenty of time to 'study' in the meantime if I truly decide to go down the DH route.

Welcome to DH diving. The biggest issue you have with diving a DH with modern gear (SPGs/Octos/BCs with inflators) is the old DH regs were never designed to accommodate those items, there is simply no place to connect most of them. The best option that you currently have is to get a US Divers DA Aquamaster and have it equipped with a Phoenix nozzle. These are sold on Vintage Double Hose (aka VDH). A USD Royal AM will also work as will a couple of Voits but they tend to cost a lot more for the base reg and there is no need to spend the extra money. With the Phoenix, you can add all the modern attachments you like. So far I have not had a dive shop not allow me to dive my Phoenix with my Express Tech (more below). The good news is you can usually buy a DA, fully restore it with all new hoses and internals, add a Phoenix and still have less money in it than buying a used modern Mistral…..and have a much better performing, better looking reg to boot.

Perfect that's already some great news, so a Phoenix nozzle will definitely be a must buy seeing how I intend to utilize a DH regulator with all the more modern 'bells and whistles'. As far as I know VDH does sell already completely restored and modernized DH regulators that will work out of the box without me having to fiddle with anything correct (like this) ? Seeing I have no experience I'd rather spend a bit more and have a product which is ready to "go" than having to do the work myself and risk screwing up.

Other than that although I won't be buying any gear immediately, I prefer to understand a bit more about how everything works before taking the plunge, in my mind I was already thinking of a US Divers Aqua Master or Royal Aqua Master; are there any differences between the two ? I read from your post that the latter is more expensive but not worth the extra money is there any chance you could provide further insight on this ?

The next issue with modern gear is the position of a DH reg MUST be correct for it to operate at it's best. It must be placed much lower on the back than most modern BCs will allow, in addition, jacket type BCs and many back inflates including BP/wings tend to hold the tank up too far off your back for proper operation. So far the best modern BC that any of us have found is the Zeagle Express Tech and even then it needs a special modification to make it work well with a DH reg.

Arguably thats the only thing holding me back at the moment and which could turn out to be a hindrance due to the way I am used to diving (tank placement) and the equipment I have since I am planning to dive a DH reg. along with a Halcyon Eclipse BC. Do the newer DH regs such as the Mistral and Mentor have the same constraints regarding tank placement ? (I presume yes since its something to do with their design rather than being old or new)

Don't just lurk over in VDH. Introduce yourself and feel free to ask ANY question Most people would be happy to have you there

Absolutely ... I'm just waiting on having the account I registered approved

Be careful, it is an infection and may lead you towards poverty, or difficult financial discussions with your significant other when the question of how many tanks and regulators do you need to have.

Hahah ye I know something about expensive hobbies, it must be some sort of fatal attraction I have so I'm afraid this won't be any different

Cheers!