Key West Spear Diver

[VooDooGasMan]

As long as not in a class, under supervision of INST, OR DM, it is up to each diver how they dive.

Parents are not to blame at all.

I dove all my life solo, YOU do NOT need a BUDDY.

 

[WetDawg]

VooDoo, Thanks for chiming in and reinforcing my point that ignorant people perpetuate deadly misinformation.

Again, a minor child cannot legally make any life and death decisions for themselves.

As a parent you are totally responsible for the heath and welfare of your children.

I am all for solo diving. In fact, I am a SDI Solo Diver Instructor. Let’s not open that can of worms and shift the debate. If you have the proper experience, training, redundant equipment, and the MIND SET to execute solo dives safely, they are very manageable. Clearly that was NOT the case here.

Additionally, the minimum age to take the Solo Diver course is 21.

 

[fjpatrum]

So the purpose of this accident forum is to hopefully learn from tragic experiences such as this one so that others may avoid them.

The core of what went wrong here is that a 16 year old child (yes, child, the law says so) was allowed to dive solo. Does anyone here really think that is OK?

Regardless of the child’s experience level, certification level, total number of dives, or “comfort in the water” I can tell you one thing for sure his parents had no business allowing him to dive solo, period. A minor child cannot legally sign waivers nor make decisions as such for themselves. Just like buying your kid alcohol or cigarettes or allowing them to drive when unlicensed I think this is totally and utterly wrong. In fact, where serious harm is done it can be a CRIME. Buy your kid drinks and let him drive, he gets in an accident, it’s your fault. Period.

The saddest part of this tragedy is that it was TOTALY AVOIDABLE had one of the adults in the boat exercised some basic common sense.

Sadder still is that there are still a bunch of people who live down here in South Florida who “grew up on the water” and have been “diving their whole life” and think that they are invincible and therefore are very lax in their respect for the underwater environment. Tragically they pass this lack of respect on to their children.

Kids do things they're not supposed to do all the time. You're making a large assumption that responsible adults were okay with the solo diving. I haven't read the articles, to be honest, but I'd be more willing to bet his buddy was also a minor and he stayed under after his buddy surfaced, rather than going out and doing an outright solo dive start to finish with the approval of responsible adults.

EDIT: Having had a chance to read the articles linked, I will concede that it certainly seems the father, at least was aware of the solo diving. Unfortunate, but I would guarantee he'll feel guilty for the rest of his life over his decision to allow it.

 

[DandyDon]

Kids do things they're not supposed to do all the time. You're making a large assumption that responsible adults were okay with the solo diving. I haven't read the articles, to be honest, but I'd be more willing to bet his buddy was also a minor and he stayed under after his buddy surfaced, rather than going out and doing an outright solo dive start to finish with the approval of responsible adults.

Nope. Maybe you need to read the news stories.

Rationalizing why the diver did what he did notwithstanding, he ignored his OW training, did what he wanted to do, which killed him.

 

[fjpatrum]

Nope. Maybe you need to read the news stories.

Rationalizing why the diver did what he did notwithstanding, he ignored his OW training, did what he wanted to do, which killed him.

I really don't have much beef with diving beyond your training, as long as it's a considered decision. Whether that means solo, or deep diving, we each make our choices. Having an informed position from which to make those choices is what I consider important. Whether a 16 year old can understand the ramifications of the choices is perhaps debatable but I'm not going to throw stones at the parents for allowing it.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

There's no reinforcing your statement, You are an instructor and you have to go buy your cert agency rules, or you can get sued.

No one needs certified in USA period.

Back when flipper was on tv, sandy dove solo.
Kids have been diving for 50 years.

Diving is the most easiest thing to do in the world, why do you think they came up with the Idea to get certified.

The diver was spearfishing, they claim a big grouper, the diver did fail to monitor air, and i would even say, probably never checked. When took first hard breath, he went to the surface.

Its an accident and that is all it is.

Look at all the scuba deaths that are happening, it is the certification classes that are failing to keep the only important thing in scuba, Monitor your gauges, After several hundred dives, a diver will be automatic system, by system is know exactly how to do a dive, any dive and make it to the surface with plenty of air.

A friend of mine say's last month while spearfishing, I know these dives and wants the most amount of time under. I told him one last time on last day of ling season, you and your kid will be back to boat with a 1000, so his kid could get a ling, they had less than 100 left. I was in 15 min's before them and came back 15 min's after, and I had my ling. When I entered boat, he say's right away we needed to work on it, they did not make it to boat and walked beach back to boat.

Does not matter, parent, instructor, buddy, you are responsible for you underwater. It is up to you, if you want to dive with someone and be apart of there dive, to enter and return the water together.

The only time a kid is not responsible for there self, is when in a cert class of some sort.

Of course the instructor makes the kid, and parent sign a liability release form, why? cause they are responsible for them self.


WETDAWG, thanks for reinforcing my point ignorant instructors perpetuate deadly misinformation.

 

[WetDawg]

VooDooASSman, again you make my point better than I can myself;

The word accident is defined as : "an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance"

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Truth hurts, or you would not resort to name calling. Grow up.

It is not the parents fault, it is an instructor like you who knows everything, with your attitude, your students could be in danger, do you call your students names when they do not agree in a conversation, of course they could feel it from the way your writing.

 

[d_lafleur]

Look at all the scuba deaths that are happening, it is the certification classes that are failing to keep the only important thing in scuba, Monitor your gauges, After several hundred dives, a diver will be automatic system, by system is know exactly how to do a dive, any dive and make it to the surface with plenty of air.

It appears to have been a severe DCS hit. Was this because of this dive or this dive + the previous dive?? From the article, it would lead you to believe that dive 2 happened shortly after dive 1. Monitoring your air isnt the only "automatic system" for a competent diver.


Does not matter, parent, instructor, buddy, you are responsible for you underwater. It is up to you, if you want to dive with someone and be apart of there dive, to enter and return the water together.

I agree that every diver in the water is responsible for themselves, which includes the risk you put the divers around in, along with the response you receive when the poop hits the fan. I have been involved in a similar situation in deeper water, with a completely different result. Knowledge is power and acting corectly and quickly can change the outcome. I see a lot of missed oppurtunity for errors just by reading the article.

Even animals with gills cannot overcome the physiological aspects of pressure gradiants, so it doesnt really matter if you grew up in Key West, Atlantis, or Withita.

5chars.

 

[Jax]

Was this a DCS hit, or was there some Arterial Gas Embolism included?

Driving is FAR more dangerous to "children", but is allowed all the time.

Fact - well trained children die while driving all the time . . . mostly due to their own mistakes.

The fact that an experienced diver, who was also a child, died from a mistake (failure to manage gas), should not be an outrage - blame the parents - OMG he was solo - blame-blame-blame game.

Oh, BTW, anyone who thinks that a parent can actually control a 16-17-year-old is delusional.