Regulators 101

[n733lk]

I know this has been asked 1,001 times, but here it goes AGAIN

Where to begin with purchasing regs and octopi? I'm looking for reasonably priced equipment for recreational diving. What is MY definition of "reasonably priced"? Inexpensive equipment that will keep me alive and will last a few years until I can afford the GOOD stuff!

How about buying USED? Thoughts?

Thanks gang!

 

[Azrael]

1) You will need whatever you buy serviced every year, buy something that has lifetime parts. You still have to pay for labor but parts can run 50+ depending on the regulator. Apeks, Aqualung, Scuba Pro, and many more all do this.
2) How cold of water will you be diving? If below 50f you need to look with an environmental seal kit on it. Personally I prefer a sealed diaphragm regulator for cold water diving but there are some great piston regulators on the market that come, or can be converted, to cold water diving.
3) What do your buddies dive? It's helpful to have the same gear
4) Don't look at cost, this is not a cheap sport/hobby/obsession/addiction. Personally I buy the best I can afford. I ignore the gimmicks like carbon fiber or status indicators but I go top of the line with any life support equipment.

My personal recommendation is the Apeks XTX50 or the Aqualung Legand LX supreme (they are practically the same), but I do cold water diving. Warm water only diving I would still go with XTX50.

As for used, you really won't save money. No matter what the seller says you need to have any used gear serviced before you dive it and that is going to run you 70-90 plus parts and then parts every year or two on top of that.

 

[Kryssa]

Scubatoys was just doing a closeout on Aeris A1 regs. $179 for the 1st & 2nd stage + $79 for the octo. They aren't fancy but they will do their job dependably.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk

 

[Bubbletrubble]

1) You will need whatever you buy serviced every year, buy something that has lifetime parts. You still have to pay for labor but parts can run 50+ depending on the regulator. Apeks, Aqualung, Scuba Pro, and many more all do this.

I disagree. A reg owner does not need to service his reg every year. To maintain certain free-lifetime-overhaul-parts programs, however, certain manufacturers (e.g., Scubapro) stipulate that the owner has to get the reg serviced annually (or overhauled once every 2 years with inspections on the in-between years; at least that's Aqualung/Apeks). It's true that labor costs alone run $50-$80 for a typical reg setup.

3) What do your buddies dive? It's helpful to have the same gear

Absolutely unnecessary.

4) Don't look at cost, this is not a cheap sport/hobby/obsession/addiction. Personally I buy the best I can afford. I ignore the gimmicks like carbon fiber or status indicators but I go top of the line with any life support equipment.

If you follow this advice, you'll be spending more than you need to on a reg. Buy what you need or prefer with an eye on budgeting concerns.

As for used, you really won't save money. No matter what the seller says you need to have any used gear serviced before you dive it and that is going to run you 70-90 plus parts and then parts every year or two on top of that.

If serviced only when necessary, many regs can go 2-5 years in-between overhauls. This is how a reg owner can save money in the long-run. Compare "as necessary" servicing to the labor costs of annual (or every other year) overhauls assuming that the free-lifetime-overhaul-parts is in effect.

Used regs can be a good deal. Before purchasing anything, you should know how much it will cost to make the reg dive-able. If you don't know how to work on the reg yourself, you'll need to pay a competent reg tech to inspect and possibly overhaul the reg setup. An inspection without disassembly is probably relatively inexpensive. However, a complete overhaul ± replacement of worn-out parts not normally replaced during an overhaul could be very pricey ($100+). New regs generally come with some sort of warranty that promises trouble-free operation for at least 1-2 years at a minimum.

 

[Azrael]

Not trying to get into virtual shouting match with bubble, and we will probably never agree anyway, but my personal opinion is that he is off base. You are obviously a new diver and looking for recommendations on gear. I wouldn't expect you to have the experience to know when a regulator requires servicing, nor would I expect you to know the difference between an unbalanced Aeris A1 and over balanced environmentally sealed XTX50. My recommendation to dive what your buddies dive is only a suggestion. Your buddies may know a certified reg tech that can service your equipment for a discount, or they can compare the way your regulator breathes to theirs (if similar equipment) and that may help indicate a problem. As for annual service, I can't more strongly disagree. Inside those regulators are o-rings, springs, and seals. O-rings can break (had a high pressure o-ring on a rental reg in shop today that broke while a student was using it sent bubbles everywhere) and springs can degrade (Dive rite recall anyone). I never want to be 2 days into a 5 day live aboard trip and need to have my equipment serviced, the yearly cost is just piece of mind IMO.

You didn't indicate the type of diving you were going to be doing so a little information would greatly help us point you in a general direction.

1) Do you plan in dive in water colder than 50f?
2) Do you plan to get additional certification, say advanced open water, and dive to depths approaching 100 feet or more?
3) Do you plan to dive in murky conditions (like a local quarry) with a lot of sediment in the water?
4) What is your actual budget and by that I mean what are you comfortable spending.

To me no other piece of gear is as important as your regulator. You can deal with a dead computer or broken BC while diving but a failure in your regulator is an immediate problem.

If you want a really decent regulator setup check out the HOG gear sold by Dive Right Inn Scuba. 265$ for what is basically an Apeks XTX50. You will never out breathe that regulator and you have a local shop in Houston (Giggen Marlin Divers) that is listed as a dealer. HOG is also one of the only manufactures that allows owner to learn to service their own gear which can save you money in the long run.

 

[g1138]

I agree with Bubbletrubble on the majority of what he said.

As an example on cost in the long run.

- I bought a Scubapro 109 second stage for $40 off ebay. After servicing it, the total price came out to around $80.
$25 for service, $15 for parts.
I don't think I really came out ahead, especially after I had to spend hours scrubbing verdigris out from the breathing orifice.

- My first regulator set up had it's annual service a few months ago and the price would have been $75 if I didn't have a manufacturers free parts warranty on it.
Because of the warranty I only had to pay $50 service charge. This was just for a primary, first stage, and SPG.
Had I serviced my octo (the SP 109) it would have been another $25. (although I had spent $80 on it the previous month)
I'll be sad when my 2 year warranty and free parts expires =[.

So down the road I think free lifetime parts goes a long way for you. And depending on the shop you may be paying a lot more than $25 per stage for service. Next time I buy a reg set up I'll be looking for that.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

- I bought a Scubapro 109 second stage for $40 off ebay. After servicing it, the total price came out to around $80.
$25 for service, $15 for parts.
I don't think I really came out ahead, especially after I had to spend hours scrubbing verdigris out from the breathing orifice.

@g1138: You really should just service the 109 on your own. The DIY route would be very straightforward on that particular second stage.

 

[TSandM]

If you do not know how to work on your own regulators, and as a new diver, I would imagine you don't, then you have to consider the cost of service in the purchase price of a used reg. You really shouldn't buy a regulator and use it without having it serviced, even if you know the person from whom you bought it (learned that one the hard way!) If you consider this, some used equipment is not quite the bargain it appears to be.

There are good regs available for reasonable prices. We converted our whole household to HOG regs this year -- they breathe quite well, and are very moderately priced. When we started diving, we bought Aqualung Titans, and we have used them for six years and been very happy with them. (The switch to HOG is so that we can openly service our own regulators and openly buy the parts, not because we were unhappy with what we had.)

Not only do I not think you have to go to the top of the line to get a good regulator, I think some of the top of the line regs have bells and whistles I not only won't use, but don't want.

 

[g1138]

@g1138: You really should just service the 109 on your own. The DIY route would be very straightforward on that particular second stage.

Thought about it, at the time it was over my head. My friend does his own 109's though, he took it apart for me so we could clean it. He didn't have the spare parts though so I took it to the LDS.
Got any advice on getting SP parts?

(The switch to HOG is so that we can openly service our own regulators and openly buy the parts, not because we were unhappy with what we had.)

What's the prerequisites to take a HOG repair tech course?

 

[Aqua-Andy]

 [B]over balanced[/B] environmentally sealed XTX50

Nothing like advertising a design flaw as something special.

If you want a really decent regulator setup check out the HOG gear sold by Dive Right Inn Scuba. 265$ for what is basically an Apeks XTX50. You will never out breathe that regulator and you have a local shop in Houston (Giggen Marlin Divers) that is listed as a dealer. HOG is also one of the only manufactures that allows owner to learn to service their own gear which can save you money in the long run.

I could not agree more.