Some broad questions about gear and the LDS

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scubafied

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I'm a Fish!
I see a lot of threads regarding people purchasing new gear (usually someone new to the sport as myself), and the responses are mixed at best, as far as whether to rent until you know for certain what you want or buy using your best judgement from reviews and suggestions.

My experience with gear comes from playing outdoors in the mountains and none of the activities I participate in, with the exception of possibly frisbee golf :D , is cheap. The equipment you need for Climbing/Mountaineering, Skiing/Snowboarding, Kayaking/Rafting, Mtn. Biking/Cycling or anything else along those lines is quite costly. Once you begin to do it frequently you get into replacing gear and if you are already predisposed to having fancy new trinkets it only gets worse (yearly replacements). Renting until you are certain what you want is not an option in most cases as the rental items you find for these activities are usually some price point packages thrown together by corporate that don't cost them much and are fairly mediocre products or they are pieces of heavily used equipment from the staff that currently work at the store, politely donated when they upgraded to their new gear. Every once in awhile if you decide to buy from these shops they will discount your purchase with whatever rental costs you incurred which adds to the benefit of renting, but not always.

I almost always buy my equipment new and based on reviews and recommendations, making sure to do my homework as thoroughly as possible. Has this bitten me before? Yes. Would it keep me from doing it with a new sport like Scuba diving? No. I guess having the background I do, I'm used to the cost associated with playing outdoors and Scuba does not seem any different from the others as far as over-flooded markets with name-brands, sub-brands and the chances you take buying costly equipment. Combine that with the fact that I live in an area where there are only 3 dive shops immediately available with limited gear selections between the 3 and I had no other choice but to shop online.

I also see a lot of people giving advice to buy from your LDS as they will be more willing to help you later down the road. This implies that if you bring in gear purchased from somewhere else they'll be less inclined to offer assistance. Of the 3 shops near me, only 1 has been friendly and outgoing, the other 2 were either preoccupied with themselves or I had novice stamped on my forehead and they weren't interested in helping me (I've seen others post about this same sort of thing). Shouldn't shops be going out of their way to help any diver or any prospective divers that happen to walk through the door with whatever it is they need, regardless of where they bought their gear or did their training? It seems to me shops make the majority of their income from retail sales and not from certifications, so shouldn't they be trying to engage each customer and help them find what it is they need, even if this means pointing them to the shop down the road or if it only means helping them maintain that level of "stoke" they got from their first time diving? What's with the attitude? :shakehead:

All that being said, I have one last question for those that dive 75 times a year or more. What piece of gear do you find yourself replacing the most and is it because of wear and tear or because you, not unlike me, have to have the newest toys and don't mind the hassle of selling the old.:D
 
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Good post. It's not really a question of what wears out but usually a question of what can I add. As you know from mountaineering and some of your other sports you usually start out with a general purpose, basic, bare bones setup and as you gain experience and exposure to other people's gear you realize that there are better products out there for a specific condition. That basic entry level unbalanced reg may be fine for your intial shallow dives but as you start getting into deep dives you might want a balanced reg that may have additiona features like an automatic flow control that breathes easier at depth. Maybe you will add a pony bottle with another style reg and miflex hoses. The SPG you started out with on your console might be replaced with an air integrated computer as you start doing deeper dives. There's many examples.
Regs can be rebuilt, most better BCD's like the TransPak by Dive Rite allow you to replace every component, including the bladder, individually. Most of these items can be brought to as-new condition. Wetsuits will wear, tear, loose zipper teeth, compress, and eventually need to be replaced. You might find that as you add several different wetsuits to your collection from shorties to 3mm to 5mm to 7mm to adjust to your dive conditions you will distribute the wear between them.
In this sport, as in others, new technology always presents us with an opportunity to spend more money. Likewise expanding your skills and qualifications into new types of diving also allows you opportunity to spend.
Dive Safe
 
Having worked for my LDS for a few years, the advice i find myself giving the most often is to rent your gear for the beginning of your diving career.

At the beginning, most people don't really know where they want diving to take them, so id suggest getting out and doing as much diving as you can. Gain experience. Take courses, pop into your LDS just to chat, and peruse boards such as this. Learn as much as you can. Use that knowledge to develop the skills you will require for this sport and then decide what equipment would benefit you the most. However, i can guarantee you won't get it right the first time. As Cpt Larry described, there will always be something else, something new, or something to replace.

I'm sure you will hear this again if this isn't the first time you've heard it, better equipment does not make a better diver. Equipment can't replace skills.
 
1. Yes most definitely, love thy customer! Like your girlfriend you should never tell your LDS about other relationships! It happens. I buy stuff from Divers Direct when I'm in Key Largo. I may have even purchased a piece of gear online once (only once). But as a service tech / instructor / shop employee I try and have a close relationship with my customers. I love the level of trust people have in me to service their gear and to take them in 130' of water 20 miles off shore. That's probably the biggest reason it matters to me where gear is purchased. You trust me with your life but you don't trust me to sell you the gear?? Especially if its purchased from leisuretoys/scubagear/lockerexpress.com. Back to our girlfriend analogy...that's like giving a girl jewelry meant for your ex and then telling her...just sayin.

2. Retail isn't always the majority. Every shop is different but most likely if a shop gave up certs or retail they would close their doors. Especially in today's market!

3. Attitude...yeah I apologize to all those people who walk into a shop and get the snotty kid or arrogant super-diver! These two people seem to work at a lot of LDSs. A lot of it has to do with the personality of the shop! If you're in a city with some options you should try all of them until you find the right fit. When I say try I mean go diving with not just walk in and look around. Finding a good shop is shopping and it is really important!! I know so many divers who stopped or slowed down their diving because they didn't have a group or buddy to go with. Find a shop that you like and you've always got a buddy!! I get guys that pop in on a Tuesday wanting to go diving on Wednesday and I'm like "Heck yeah, I'm not working tomorrow!"

4. Worn out gear...Wetsuits, fins, dive lights in that order. My wetsuit is two years old and while I could dive it still its got cuts and fixes and such on it from the 250 dives in the past 18 months. I'm on my third set of fins but one pair broke and was replaced under warranty. I think I could supply the lighting for a Guns n' Roses reunion with all the dive lights I have. Not that they all are dead but switches break or they flood and need repaired.
 
I disagree about the rental gear. I think it sends a clear message that you are making a commitment to being a good diver when you purchase your own gear. More importantly rental gear changes drastically from place to place meaning your diving becomes more inconsistent because muscle memory isn't reinforced and buoyancy skills are harder to pin down because of constantly changing BCDs and regulators.
 
I disagree about the rental gear. I think it sends a clear message that you are making a commitment to being a good diver when you purchase your own gear. More importantly rental gear changes drastically from place to place meaning your diving becomes more inconsistent because muscle memory isn't reinforced and buoyancy skills are harder to pin down because of constantly changing BCDs and regulators.

You have some valid points there about rentals that I haven't seen expressed. I can also see your point in number 1 about trusting you with my life (the course/instruction) and not buying the gear. In my personal situation, I was certified through a 4 day crash course on vacation in Hawaii (so much for doing my research:(). As for gear, the 1 shop near me that has been helpful has gotten my business thus far and even though they did not have everything I was interested in (they are a mostly tech shop, little in the way of rec gear), the items I did buy online I know I will not have issues getting serviced as they are brands the shop carries.
 
All that being said, I have one last question for those that dive 75 times a year or more. What piece of gear do you find yourself replacing the most and is it because of wear and tear or because you, not unlike me, have to have the newest toys and don't mind the hassle of selling the old.:D
I find myself having to replace my latex neck seal on my drysuit most often. That happens every 12-18 months. Replacement is necessary due to normal degradation of the latex material.

I don't need the latest toys, so my scuba expenditures are pretty minimal now (price of gas fills). I do seem to be accumulating a bunch of steel tanks, though. :D
 
I think before you buy your own gear you need to evaluate both the type and frequency of the diving you plan to do.
 
I think before you buy your own gear you need to evaluate both the type and frequency of the diving you plan to do.

I completely agree with this and it's something I did before I pulled the trigger on any purchases. I also am well aware, as Captain Larry pointed out, that things change as you progress and upgrades are bound to happen eventually. I tried to minimize that by buying a few pieces I hoped would last awhile and for multiple aspects/purposes of diving and I already know that after I finish some more fun diving and training I will most likely be going back to that tec diving shop near me to look into the BP/W route.
 
I notice a lot of people putting a lot of emphasis on, or worried about, what a certain LDS thinks of you and your probability of spending lots of bucks in his/her shop. Who cares? It's their problem, not yours. Go to theirs or another nearby shop if there is one, try stuff on which you may or may not buy. Rent a few things and when you decide to buy, go online or to Ebay and get what you need. Your size in BCD's can be anywhere from Medium to XLG, depending on which Chinese or Vietnamese factory they are produced in. If you can save enough money to cover sending one back for the correct size you're OK. Same goes for wetsuits unless you are, like me, built kind of off the beaten path, and really should have one built for your shape. Otherwise there are plenty of scissors and glue around. As far as expensive items like computers, watches and less expensive items like gloves, fins and masks you can pick up most of the info you need right here. Care more about your wallet and well-being than some employee or owner of a dive shop.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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