what applications would you use of a pony bottle

[FritzCat66]

3. Failed first stage
Never heard of it happening. Could it? But then so could your pony, especially if you rarely - or never - use it.

You make some good points, but I'm calling this one a bit disingenuous: that is, claiming a redundant system is useless because it might fail as well as the system it's providing redundancy for. By that argument, we shouldn't carry spare tires on our cars because the spare might also get flat.

I will totally agree with you that there's no reason to carry a broken pony. But there is also no reason not to treat a pony system's valve, regs, and hoses the same as any other piece of kit, with regular maintenance and such, and I for one advocate ascending on the pony the last dive of the weekend/dive trip (when you would normally ascend, not to extend that last dive) just to stay familiar with the pony and to keep testing it out.

You mention first & second stages "never" failing, yet stories of freeze-ups and reg mouthpieces becoming separated from the second-stage body are all over this board. And besides the stages, there are hoses that come loose, break at the crimp, burst, and so on. One major LP hose problem and the primary tank can be drained in a fat hurry.

Another (minor) application for a pony - and an argument for keeping them filled with plain air and not backgas - is temporary MOD relief. A sudden downdraft takes you deeper than your nitrox MOD, or you drop your camera on the sand below your MOD. Now, some may say you won't oxtox taking a temporary dip below your MOD, but with an air-filled pony you don't even have to risk it (presuming you didn't drop it WAAAAY down there beyond pony capacity or - yikes - air MOD of course!).

You might not like ponies, but they are still by definition self-contained and redundant gas supplies, enough for a safe, normal ascent without use of the primary system at all when sized properly. Many of us find that redundancy alone well worth while, not to mention any other possible uses.

I also keep a spare tire in my car, filled with air as well. I've never needed it. Hope I never do. Doesn't stop me from carrying it, and no argument about its "worthlessness" will, either; although I wouldn't try to push one on someone who decided not to carry a spare. Your life, your decision.

 

[fire_diver]

I've witnessed 2nd stage failure first hand. When a diaphram seperates, you get air one breath, and water the next. I've also seen plenty of inatentive buddies, that make me want to always have my own redundant air supply.

Lastly, I typically solo dive, so carrying my own redundant air makes sense. If you don't want to carry a pony, that is your choice. However, to sit behind your keyboard and say that ponies are a useless waste of money is just assinine.

BTW - about your little fish pond story Chris, just how the heck were you diving if you have no BCD? just holding the tank under your arm? What exactly were you getting tangled in and what was getting tangled?

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

BTW - about your little fish pond story Chris, just how the heck were you diving if you have no BCD? just holding the tank under your arm? What exactly were you getting tangled in and what was getting tangled?

Contrary to popular myth, BC's came long after SCUBA equipment. Actually, a BC is not Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus. A BC is also not life support equipment, it is just a convenience.

My first ~150 dives were without BC......

​

Have you watched any of the early James Bond movies? (wish I understood yt embedding )

YouTube - James BOND 007 Thunderball Underwater Battle. Sean Connery

Ever seen the National Geo TV show titled Tuna Cowboys?

​

 

[Chris K.]

I've witnessed 2nd stage failure first hand. When a diaphram seperates, you get air one breath, and water the next. I've also seen plenty of inatentive buddies, that make me want to always have my own redundant air supply.

Lastly, I typically solo dive, so carrying my own redundant air makes sense. If you don't want to carry a pony, that is your choice. However, to sit behind your keyboard and say that ponies are a useless waste of money is just assinine.

BTW - about your little fish pond story Chris, just how the heck were you diving if you have no BCD? just holding the tank under your arm? What exactly were you getting tangled in and what was getting tangled?

We dived with a harness and weight belt. the drysuit was your means of contolling your buoyancy. Fish farms are approximately 400 feet wide and 800 feet long. they are surrounded with 2 inch nylon mesh which is meant to keep out seals. Nothing but a very sharp knife will cut this stuff. you touch it with your gear (first stage, valve, fin strap, whatever) you're stuck, period. Diving between the outer skin and the net pens gave you sometimes less than two feet of space. if the current was stong enough the net pen would touch the outer skin and you had to fight your way through. At the center the outer skin could drop to more than 120 feet. If you had to do inspections of the outer skin from below, you were stuck in an over-head environment with no way out at least 200 feet either way. Trust me, I know entanglement.
I never said a pony bottle was useless. A waste of money, maybe, maybe not. In the right environment and in the right hands it has its use. Even if it gives you added confidence, and so long as you maintain it like a second set of gear. Same annual inspections of both reg set as well as tank, etc. It's just an opinion. isn't this what these forums are supposed to be about??

 

[Chris K.]

OK, If I ever dive in a fish farm, I'll take that advice.

I have. I've witnessed it first hand and the diver did make a safe assent but then again he was only 50' deep and at the beginning of his dive.
Sorry, I've had this happen to me. (Rental tank + plugged tube)= Suddenly OOA. Buddy was near by so no issue but what if my buddy was not so close by? As we were sharing his gas, I was thinking, hmmm, maybe a pony would have been handy right now.
Here's my question to you. You are diving a nice wreck in SoCal, 100' deep in cold water and after 40 minutes you suddenly find it necessary to make that sawing motion under your chin and your buddy just went inside the wreck, expecting you to follow and does not notice your ever increasing need for gas.
Fortunately for you the guy next to you notices your pending panic and shoves his spare regulator in your face and you greedily suck in some live giving air. But, you soon realize that this life saving regulator is attached to a pony! The horror! So you'd one, spit it out, chastise your life saver for using such a stupid diving gimmick and that if he was a real diver he'd NEVER have a pony tank - or - thank him for the gas, go on ScubaBoard and continue to bash pony tank divers.

NO,NO,NO i never meant to trash anyone! Come on, it's just an opinion. Of course, if you want to carry a pony, go for it! I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Anything to make your dive safer is a good thing. just remember what the limitations and consequences can be, that's all. It's not the be-all and end-all of diver safety. All I'm advocating is that before a diver loads up on more gear to carry, maintain, and manage on a dive, maybe he or she should evaluate the cost / benefit scenario. A pony makes you less mobile, increase your chance of entanglement, MAY give you false confidence if you're not ABSOLUTELY fluid in its application, and will cost you double in yearly maintenance - and i'm sure there are some who would have to admit they've never used their ponies, and wouldn't know if it worked if they needed it because of that - like that fire extinguisher behind the back seat of your car...
Oh, and if someone offered me their pony because i ran out of air, I would flatly refuse and die honorably...

 

[koozemani]

I've used both 13 and 19 cf slung across the front. i've only needed it once, but i was glad i had it. I was diving with another student and the instructor for a deep dive cert. It was my first time diving in atrocious vis (less than a foot) and I burned through my gas at was probably a new record. yeah there was a little anxiety going on. I only needed the pony for the safety stop, but needed it none the less. it's always nice to know it's there.

 

[fire_diver]

NO,NO,NO i never meant to trash anyone! Come on, it's just an opinion. Of course, if you want to carry a pony, go for it! I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Anything to make your dive safer is a good thing. just remember what the limitations and consequences can be, that's all. It's not the be-all and end-all of diver safety. All I'm advocating is that before a diver loads up on more gear to carry, maintain, and manage on a dive, maybe he or she should evaluate the cost / benefit scenario. A pony makes you less mobile, increase your chance of entanglement, MAY give you false confidence if you're not ABSOLUTELY fluid in its application, and will cost you double in yearly maintenance - and i'm sure there are some who would have to admit they've never used their ponies, and wouldn't know if it worked if they needed it because of that - like that fire extinguisher behind the back seat of your car...

Pony bottles are just another piece of expensive gear the industry is trying to tell you that you need. ..... Monitor your air consumption, know what you are doing, and don't rely on some gadget to save your butt. I have no use, nor do I understand the purpose of a pony bottle. It's just meant to make you look more important. I went diving yesterday at one of our local "holes" - the amount of expensive gear present could pay the national dept of a small country! Ease up, people! Use your naugin instead of your wallet. I get a kick out of playing stupid and asking some of these heavy-hung divers "What's that for?" I usually get a startled look and a "Well, it's for in case I run out of air, of course!" My "Why would you run out of air? Don't you have gages?" gets the defense mechanism going, and before you know it, we're knee deep in an argument over how to dive safely.

Chris, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. You started out attacking pony users, saying that they are useless, "just meant to make you look important". You even admit to baiting fights with divers at dive sites over thier gear. Then you came back and said you are fine with ponies then turned around and started trashing ponies users again claiming we don't know how to use or maintain our gear and that we are wasting our money with them.

For someone brand new to the site, you aren't making yourself many friends with this attitude.

 

[FritzCat66]

Oh, and if someone offered me their pony because i ran out of air, I would flatly refuse and die honorably...

Now, there's a man who stands by his principles. Death before dishonor (from an ignominius pony)!

 

[chrisski]

Bailout in commercial applications, or surface supplied.
possibly for technical or penetrations in very confined spaces (where a b.c. is too tight)
Should probably have your stuff wrapped up tight for that though, just a thought on the latter.

 

[--tom--]

Hey Chris: Sorry I didn't answer earlier. Besides the reasons posted, on occasion (extremely rarely) O-rings on yoke tanks fail underwater. Pretty amazing to see, but neither your primary or AAS are much use at that point. Your drysuit isn't much good for for buoyancy control either.

I can't say you are wrong; you have undoubtedly adopted an equipment configuration that is appropriate for your style/locale/training of your diving. Diving is about risk management, and different divers approach the activity with different risk/reward formula than you do. Isn't that part of what makes this such a fun sport?