{Gray Market vs Leisure Pro}

[redacted]

Leisure Pro representatives on here have stated in posts that they get their grey market inventory from manufacturers/distributors. They didn't name brand names.... or state exactly where. (perhaps overseas distributors, I'm sure with full knowledge of the manufacturer).

They don't hide this. but they don't exactly advertise it either.

Mud Guppy, welcome to the forum. Nothing wrong with your question, but it's just a common debate here as some people bash LP for their actions, when in reality it's the manufacturers they should be "mad" at for their controlling price rules that won't let the Local Dive Shop compete per their dealer agreement on minimum pricing.

Don't blame it all on the manufacturer(s). Many dive shops seek out the anti-competitive agreements from manufacturers, depending on the brand name to produce sales with protected profit margins. Those LDSs that want to compete can usually find effective ways to do so including deeply discounted packages that are quite competitive with Leisurepro and discounted or free service and/or training.

 

[mike_s]

Don't blame it all on the manufacturer(s). Many dive shops seek out the anti-competitive agreements from manufacturers, depending on the brand name to produce sales with protected profit margins. Those LDSs that want to compete can usually find effective ways to do so including deeply discounted packages that are quite competitive with Leisurepro and discounted or free service and/or training.

True.... Some LDS's 'want it that way'.

 

[Mud Guppy]

Yes, I agree this fixed product price is crap. I have been told by a LDS that handles SP that there is a 10% fudge factor on the price. I will also say that I have had an authorized dealer match LP's price and deep discount other stuff though still not as cheap as LP. I was told by a LDS that they have questioned SP many times and they deny supplying SP products to LP. Of course they would!

I found this:

From Scubapro/Uwatec

This letter specifically addresses Leisure Pro, New York but covers any internet sales.
Thank you for considering SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment.

Please be aware that Leisure Pro, New York is not, nor has ever been, an authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC dealer.

Leisure Pro obtains our products through "gray-market" sources and not from our factory.

Comment - Which factory? Mexico, Italy? No product is shipped from a factory it goes to distributors.

We have no way of assuring the ultimate consumer that any item purchased via this source has not been tampered with or modified. Nor can we assume that our product has been properly tested and inspected. As such, SCUBAPRO UWATEC does not extend any warranties on its products purchased from Leisure Pro or any other "unauthorized” dealer.

SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA does not authorize sales via the internet nor via mail order. We maintain a minimum pricing policy that our authorized dealers adhere to. Although some of our dealers advertise our equipment, once again they are not authorized to make direct sales through the internet, but rather, authorized dealers are only authorized to sell SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA equipment over the counter at their retail location.

All online companies that sell and make direct purchases of our product, like Leisure Pro are not an authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC dealer and SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment obtained through channels other than SCUBAPRO UWATEC Authorized Dealers does not carry the SCUBAPRO UWATEC Limited Lifetime/Limited Warranty. If you so choose to purchase SCUBAPRO UWATEC products online, the warranty will be voided.

This really is not a slam of Leisure Pro and not a denial either.

If you have gray market regs, go to ebay scuba pro regs and some one is selling the part kits. Buy the parts take them to the LDS and have them do the annual.

I have felt bad about not buying all my stuff from the LDS. But things like BC's, lights and other stuff is not a gamble. If SP is giving a life time warranty to a LDS purchased BC I have no fear buying from LP as there is no way that I am going to get a factory defect. I felt the same way about the regs. Since SP provides no warranty they still would be liable (I think) for any defect that caused harm to a user of their product. But the free parts for original owners purchased at the LDS will in the long run save you money. It is a case of pay me now or pay me later.

Leisure Pro provides people with a champagne taste on a beer pocket book to afford the good stuff. But with the trouble I had with the high dollar Luna, I would not buy that type of equipment from LP. In my case I did not risk it and that saved me allot of grief. Do you want to gamble?

I had one LDS tell me that LP just purchases items from stores going out of business. Another told me it was older unsold merchandise from a conglomerate of stores in NYC. I would not think that NYC would exactly be saturated with DS's.

Anyhoo you guys just confirmed what I already assumed.

 

[carrielsal]

Is it that time of month AGAIN??? I had no idea that it had been that long since this topic started a new thread. OK I am off to start a thread in the Site Support forum indicating that the search function must be broken.

Seriously though, do a search on this and read the 10's of thousands of posts and then ask the question again. Something new may come from it but at least you will be educated before hand. Otherwise, new or recycled info does not matter, the thread is started.

And if you do not like LP's warranty, the do not buy from them. If you do not like how you think SP is dealing with things....buy Zeagle or Hollis or Apeks or....or....or.....problem solved.

Yes, it's that time of the month again!

 

[mike_s]

Yes, I agree this fixed product price is crap. I have been told by a LDS that handles SP that there is a 10% fudge factor on the price. I will also say that I have had an authorized dealer match LP's price and deep discount other stuff though still not as cheap as LP. I was told by a LDS that they have questioned SP many times and they deny supplying SP products to LP. Of course they would!

I found this:

From Scubapro/Uwatec

This letter specifically addresses Leisure Pro, New York but covers any internet sales.
Thank you for considering SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment.

Please be aware that Leisure Pro, New York is not, nor has ever been, an authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC dealer.

Leisure Pro obtains our products through "gray-market" sources and not from our factory.

[snip]

You'll find a similar disclaimer on the Aqualung/Apeks website and the Dive Rite website. but you'll still see that LP carries their products.

I'm sure there is some "back door shipping" involved.


The manufacturers just put that babble up there so they can make their dealer who are drinking that "scubapro manufacturer koolaid" will feel better about it.

I had one LDS tell me that LP just purchases items from stores going out of business. Another told me it was older unsold merchandise from a conglomerate of stores in NYC. I would not think that NYC would exactly be saturated with DS's.

Anyhoo you guys just confirmed what I already assumed.

Ok... have you ever been to a LDS that's going out of business? they have NO STOCK in the first place. Typically they've been struggling for years maintaining a "minimum inventory". Therefore they would have "nothing of value" to sell to Leisure Pro. Besides a few odd sized wet suits and maybe a few odds and end BC's and regulators.

Last dive shop going out of Business sale I went to was a Scubaboard user who ran a shop. He didn't have a single new BC for sale or a single new Regulator for sale. Mostly just accessories and a few wetsuits. It was a waste of time and gas.

The three previous "out of business" shop sales I've gone to were the exact same way.


So Leisure Pro isn't getting stuff from "shops going out of business'. Maybe a few of the bigger shops that go under they might get some stuff from, but they do $15 million PLUS a year in sales and you don't get that kind of inventory from shops going out of business.

A majority of their inventory comes from the same distributors that the same stuff in your LDS buys from. Some of it from overseas distributors to "skirt the distribution rules".

It "ain't rocket science" where they get their stuff from.

Heck, LP is even an "authorized dealer" for most of the brands it sells. (The exceptions I know of are Aqualung/Apeks, Scubapro and Dive Rite (which I just learned of this week)).

 

[Crush]

Did you all see the great prices at LP at the height of the economic recession? I am sure that LP was buying up scuba gear at a great price at the volumes that would keep the manufacturers happy, directly from the manufacturers.

 

[pnw_diver]

I prefer to buy from my LDS when they are remotely price-competitive. However - Just one data point -

However, I have purchased a fair amount of stuff from LeisurePro. A year and a half ago, I purchased a Suunto Cobra2 for substantially less than MSRP. It failed about 16 months after I bought it, and LeisurePro had no problems whatsoever honoring the two-year warranty. As it was discontinued and out of stock, they gave me a store credit for the full purchase price after I returned the computer, no questions asked.

Likewise, the one time I needed to return something (a pair of boots that didn't fit), they issued an immediate refund on return.

As others have said, they don't hide the fact that some of the goods that they sell are grey market - however, they do warranty the goods for the same duration as the manufacturer. Decide for yourself if that's good enough.

 

[on_two_wheels]

I love it when people complain because a topic is renewed without using the search function AFTER they take the time to 1) Open the thread 2) Read the thread and then 3) take the time to reply to the thread!! Awesome.

From what I've read and have come to understand, if a retailer (online or otherwise) is an authorized dealer you should have no warranty concerns buying from them regardless whether it's online or local.

 

[flots am]

I decided to try to register my gray market SP regs and though the serial # was not linked to any LDS SP accepted the serial number and I received and email thanking me for the purchase YADA YADA. Before buying my SP regs I was watching LP's stock of the MK25 and I was really debating in my mind to purchase the regs from them (cheap). But before I dove in to purchase they ran out of stock. A few days after they ran out they had these back in stock so you can buy any off LP's web site or ebay. Having said all of this how does LP get such large quantities of SP products?

My best guess is that SP will happily sell LP as much as they can handle, possibly with a wink and a nod through a legitimate dealer or distributor so they can claim "they don't sell to LP"

From the manufacturer's viewpoint, it's all gravy. LP sales keep the manufacturer's volume up, which decreases per-unit production costs and at the same time, warranty costs are zero. It doesn't get much better than that for a manufacturer.

You should also be aware of "hidden" problems. Buying from LP means that you have a substantial chance of being placed at the bottom of the heap if you take your stuff to an authorized dealer for service. LP will service their own stuff, but now you need to deal with 2-way shipping instead of just dropping it off in person and picking it up a few days later.

flots

 

[Reef Tank]

Is it that time of month AGAIN??? I had no idea that it had been that long since this topic started a new thread....

If you do not like how you think SP is dealing with things....buy Zeagle or Hollis or Apeks or....or....or.....problem solved.

Has it been a month? The best part of these LP posts is where, like in the movie Airplane!, everyone lines up to slap/punch/hit/shoot a hysterical woman.

Is Seaquest a re-imported Aqualung? I can't seem to get there from Aqualung's website if I'm in the U.S. If it is re-imported why is my LDS selling it along with the other authorized Aqualung stuff?