Better Consumption Rate?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

They are also not breathing underwater. They are "skin divers." Whole different "animal."

Hey Herk Man! - Yeah - I was thinking about the efficiency of alveolar gas exchange, and wondering whether that exchange wouldn't be best with fully-inflated lungs (alveoli) most of the time. It seems to me - just a thought - that maybe you could accomplish that by breathing more like a porpoise.

Problem with that is you would always have mostly fully inflated lungs, adding to your lead requirement.
 
I've seen many of experienced divers with their hands folded... always wondered about that. LOL. I've been trying lately to pay attention to my breathing rate while exercising - at a moderate speed walk, I can keep my breathing rate to 6-8 breaths a minute without feeling air hunger (this is of course if I'm focusing on it).

To this day it boggles my mind - my AOW instructor would do 2 boat dives on 1 tank (al80)... and still have more air left than most of the group - and she smokes... LOL.
 
Last edited:
I've seen many of experienced divers with their hands folded... always wondered about that. LOL.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic. If you're not.

You're hands are really inefficient for propulsion, ie - waste energy and use more air. I forced myself to cross my arms and it ultimately became a habit.
 
In response to Mike Boswell's question; assuming the diver maintains adquate minute ventilation, and has no pre-exsisting pulmonary pathology (such as COPD causing early smalll airway closure and alveolar air trapping), keeping the lungs fully expanded will not improve alveolar gas exchange. Also, if a diver were to have areas of atelectasis, deep breaths may help to re-expand those areas of collapsed alveoli (as seen with pneumonia and patient with incompentent glottic closure eliminating functional positive end expiratory pressure), but someone with this situation should not be diving.:no:
 
I believe this is a pretty badly taught part of most beginning dive courses. The PADI OW Manual that I have in front of me is a '99, ver 2.0.

On page 64, second paragraph of the Breathing Underwater section;

As you breathe from scuba for the first time, remember to breathe slowly, deeply and continuously. Keep in mind the primary rule in scuba - never hold your breath. While underwater, watch your instructor for signals. Relax and enjoy the experience.

Notice the words "for the first time" and "Relax and enjoy" which I agree with and like.

On page 80, in the last paragraph of the Breathing Efficiency section;

For maximum breathing efficiency, you want to breathe slowly and deeply underwater. When using scuba, inhale more slowly and deeply than normal - not an exaggerated amount, but a bit more than normal.

This is where I chose to not always agree. I think we are most relaxed when we act normally. I think we should breathe a normal sized breath. When we are moving ourselves we normally take a larger breath than when we are not moving ourselves. The amount of movement determines what is a normal size breath at the moment. The key in my training is slow full exhalation, as the most important part of respiration is the exhalation. Get ALL the bad air out.

We do not need all the oxygen in our inhalations, so why take bigger inhalations. We actually must flex muscles more to expand the lungs for a deeper than normal breath and with that extra muscle flexing we are not as relaxed as we are with just a normal breath. Also, breathing deeper than normal makes the swing in buoyancy greater, leading to more effort in controlling buoyancy.

All that extra muscle flexing in deeper breathing, as well as possibly venting and adding to the BC more often (more muscle flexing too), is unnecessary and unnatural, leading to less relaxation and more air consumption.

I teach "normal inhalation" with a slow and complete exhalation. I tell my students that my normal exchange is something like in for 3 sec, out for 6 sec. Everyone is different, but twice as long a duration for exhale as inhale is nice controlled breathing and normal size breaths with full exhalation more than covers the respiration needs while not causing as large a buoyancy shift as deeper than normal breaths, like 5 sec in, 5 sec out.

That is my first lesson of better air consumption. Back later for more. :)
 
Last edited:
Not sure if you're being sarcastic. If you're not.

You're hands are really inefficient for propulsion, ie - waste energy and use more air. I forced myself to cross my arms and it ultimately became a habit.

I usually have enough sarcasm to go around... but this time it wasn't. It was something I noticed but never understood. During my first bunch of dives I attempted to mimic it, but due to poor buoyancy control and too much lead, I struggled.

When I saw BabyDuck's post it made sense. I will however keep practicing... hopefully I'll develop the same habit. :coffee:
 
As threatened, lesson 2. :)

Body position and locomotion have a lot to do with air consumption. For the following very long post, I am only talking about swimming at a constant average depth.

For this we need to picture three general body positions for a moving diver; the snorkeler body position, like an airplane wing at takeoff, with the snorkel as the highest point, the horizontal body position and the formula one race car body position, with fins slightly higher than snorkel.

Beginners will probably do better with traditional up and down finning until more control is achieved. Using the term kick when the proper term is finning may be one reason so many beginners bend the knee too much when using fins. Most people "see" a bent knee when they "hear" the word kick, because we kick balls by first bending the knee. Finning is mostly accomplished by moving from the hip. Try to keep the knee straight; let the water pressure bend the knee slightly, but do not bend the knee with your brain/muscles. Move the fins up and down 2' - 3', gracefully from the hip, and not anything like the fast flutter kick of competitive swimmers.

For most beginners, using the arms is a waste of energy except when making dead stop turns. Your hands are really small paddles and do not move you very much. The biggest problem with hand/arm swimming is all the muscles we flex in the process. Swimming hard with the arms fires nearly every muscle in the upper body, and all those muscles then need more oxygen. A big increase in bottom time comes by only using the muscles you need to use. Just use your fins; we go only as fast as the slowest diver fins, diving is not a race. I teach grabbing one wrist with the other hand; the only muscles flexed are those needed to hold the other wrist. Let the upper body be as relaxed as possible. Release the tension in your shoulders, do not hunch them up.

The only way you will be able to relax is if the BC is supporting you, let the air in the BC hold you up, the fins only move you forward, the arms do not need to flap like wings to keep you from hitting the bottom. When you stop finning you should only move up and down slightly with your inhalation/exhalation. Neutral buoyancy is a fleeting moment; we are mostly not neutrally buoyant. With every inhalation we are increasingly positive as we continue to breath in. With every exhalation we are increasingly negative as we continue to breath out. Timing our inhalations to catch the falling caused by our exhalations. Similarly timing our exhalations to arrest the rise caused by our inhalations. The net is swimming neutrally buoyant, but we are only neutrally buoyant for fractions of a second during every inhalation and every exhalation.

Now picture the diver with a head up "airplane wing at takeoff" body position. The thrust of the fins pushes you in the direction of the head, which is angled up, so some of the thrust is also up. Combine that with an inhalation, which increases the buoyancy of the chest, causing the chest to rise and the angle upward to increase. Now your BC expands because you have ascended, so now the BC is lifting you AND you are finning to the surface, so you must vent air and struggle to control your buoyancy, flexing muscles more and using more air. Then when you get under control at your previous depth you need to replace the vented air so more air added to BC, requiring more muscle flexing.

The horizontal body position is better, but the inhalation still causes the chest to rise and you have both the frontal drag of the head and shoulders as well as the frontal drag of all the gear attached to the tank.

With the head slightly lower than the fins, the thrust has a downward component, so the lift of the inhalation is countered easier. Drag is also now a blending of the two separate drags of horizontal and even gives some down force as we move forward, like a race car. Not only that but our eyes are close to the bottom, to easier see the cute critters better, and our knees/fins are not so close to the bottom. No hitting the bottom with knees or fins, no turbulence from fins causing the rototiller dust cloud behind us.
 
Halemano, I'm not going to quote your post in it's length and breadth, but that is an excellent explanation with good visuals. I especially like the term "formula one race car body position". It illustrates the desired body position quite clearly.

Peace,
Greg
 
I was pretty inefficient till I as at Cocoview and Dee took me under wing. She helped me get streamlined, properly weighted and relaxed (5 dives a day helped). For me there was a huge difference around my 35th dive. Not much improvment since then but I seem to be about average and don't mess up other divers timetable. According to my computer I use about .48 to .52 cft/min. My wife is massively better but guys can go crazy - or dead, trying to match females for the most part. Several divers have told me that they had breakthroughs somewhere after 30 dives. I think being calm and relaxed is the main thing once you have covered the basics.
 
A lot of good advise! But the best I can tell you is DIVE, Dive, dive, and Dive some more! Then Dive and dive and dive! As soon as you forget about breathing is when the Zen thing happens and it is no longer an issue! But don't forget to DIVE! (Only move your legs, as little body movement as possible will conserve air!)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom