AI Computer vs SPG, or both?

[PfcAJ]

This is the DIR forum. Those of us in here have varying degrees of interest in DIR, and if someone chooses to dive a 100% DIR team, that's their right to do. We all do this for fun, and I'm a pretty firm believer that a person should do whatever they feel is the most safe way to do things.

I really wish mods would remove the non DIR posts from this forum as of recent however. There's outside forums on this board to discuss non DIR tech and recreational ideas.


Mine does. You KILLED my SAC in Jupiter recently on dive 1, then we were near even dive 2. Scootering to the insulation rooms I killed urs. Swimming a single stage you came out slightly ahead. I think it changes a fair amount.

Mine stays the same...your's on the otherhand, is quite variable All that talk about having more gas at jupiter, ha! lol

 

[iztok]

What kind of change do you consider significant? My SAC rate is pretty even and doesn't change a whole lot from dive to dive. Are you looking for some sort of specific data?

With different activity SAC rate changes during the dive. As a computer geek I like that sort of data collected.

I am not talking about anything else but data collecting for further analysis.

SAC rate also changed between the dives due to different conditions.

Your SAC rate probably changes noticeably when you scooter vs. when you kick. It also probably changes during certain more stressful activities such as training with multiple failures etc.

Then there is probably statistically detectable drift as one diving improves and later in life due to life changes.

 

[iztok]

DIR forum equals DIR answer.

You actually didn't answer my question with explanation, just with categorical statement. Reason for my comment is just that. Some (good) DIR practitioners actually explain their answer not just say "my team my rules".

So why properly protected data collecting AI computer is not acceptable as DIR?

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

You actually didn't answer my question with explanation, just with categorical statement. Reason for my comment is just that. Some (good) DIR practitioners actually explain their answer not just say "my team my rules".

So why properly protected data collecting AI computer is not acceptable as DIR?

It's a useless piece of gear and an extra failure point, as well as a possible entanglement hazard. It's not minimalist (ie take what you need) and can fail to sync up.

 

[iztok]

It's a useless piece of gear and an extra failure point, as well as a possible entanglement hazard. It's not minimalist (ie take what you need) and can fail to sync up.

Obviously if one wants to record the date it is not useless. (Subjective argument.)

Extra failure point? If it fails to sync it doesn't matter you are the same as w/o it. If O-ring fails it is the same as HP port o-ring so this is not extra failure point.

Entanglement - proper installation should take care of it. There are two valves, 2 hoses, and regulator right there to be entangled. Do you offer some scientific data how much the sensor increases entanglement hazard?

It is not minimalistic - I'll give you that. But if data recording is what one would like a small sensor does not present much of extra of anything.

Sure it is a possible slippery slope.

 

[TSandM]

Iztok, your arguments are precisely the ones that are always put forward as to why transmitters are not that big a deal. And I agree with them. A transmitter installed pointing downward toward the tank is not a big additional entanglement hazard, but it IS one, and entanglement behind your head is the worst kind. It's a small increase in risk, but it's a risk increase for what is seen as a dubious and unnecessary benefit. If you want to know how much gas you used on a dive, check your SPG and write the answer down.

I think with many, if not most things in diving, there are advantages and disadvantages. One has to balance one against the other, giving weight according to what one's priorities are. If reliability and simplicity are high priorities, you'll decide against a transmitter. This is why such a device is not part of the DIR configuration.

 

[iztok]

TSandM, I am genuinely interested in DIR esp. to increase my diving abilities and gain more training. However what I don't get is some firm statements on something so minimal. Esp. if you can't provide any scientific evidence backing statements up.

Anyone actually experienced or seen any diver got entangled because of a transmitter? Any experience of failure of a transmitter in a form that endangers the dive?

Otherwise we are just like talking about acupuncture. There are claims it works but no scientific evidence for it.

 

[JeffG]

TSandM, I am genuinely interested in DIR esp. to increase my diving abilities and gain more training. However what I don't get is some firm statements on something so minimal. Esp. if you can't provide any scientific evidence backing statements up.

Anyone actually experienced or seen any diver got entangled because of a transmitter? Any experience of failure of a transmitter in a form that endangers the dive?

Otherwise we are just like talking about acupuncture. There are claims it works but no scientific evidence for it.

Its a gizmo.

Its a single purpose gizmo. It doesn't scale to multiple tank dives.

But for all the gizmo's in the world. They are not the worst. While not strictly DIR, nobody would give a poo poo for a recreational dive.

 

[shellbackdiver1]

Anyone actually experienced or seen any diver got entangled because of a transmitter? Any experience of failure of a transmitter in a form that endangers the dive?

Naw...never seen it cause we never dive with transmitters.

I guess you are right, I'm a bad "DIR" guy cause I follow what works? You are asking about something that is not needed. You can cry till the cows come home and still it will not change the standards.

AI is not "DIR". AI is not going to be "DIR" I hope. Any good teammate should be expected to track his/her SAC during a dive using a SPG and timer. Definitely if you don't have the skill required to do this then you are not part of the team.

If you have some sort of initial "DIR" training planned for the future then this will be again explained to you if you decide to show up for class with an AI. You may pass with it as well. But any future training afterwards with be sans AI.

 

[iztok]

Shellback, it is not that you follow what works. I was more interested in why's of it.

I was raised not to take "because" (without any followup explanation) as an answer. Hence asking for more explanations.

TSandM answered some for example and I am grateful.

I get it you don't seem to dive with non-DIR people but statistically there are probably more divers with transmitters than there are DIR divers. (And I haven't heard of any entanglement due to transmitter but I could be wrong.)

Too bad that a lot of context is lost in writing so things get conveyed wrong probably from both sides of this conversation.