Octo on a necklace ... with a twist

[k-valve]

You called his statement ridiculous, but you also kinda validated what he was trying to say.

I don't see how I was validating the statement "the best reason to donate the primary is that it keeps (or at least should keep) people from buying really crappy backup regs..." Maybe all the other explanation was confusing, but I thought I clearly explained what I thought the best reasons for donating your primary were: 1. It's not unknown for a panicked diver in an OOA situation to go for his/her buddy's primary so you might as well practice it that way. 2. Avoid task loading an already nervous diver.

I don't think the best reason is because it encourages people to spend more money on a backup. What many divers I've been around need...and I've been around a few...is something that will safely get them back to the surface. In an OOA emergency you're calling the dive and heading up. The backup doesn't have to breath as easy as the expensive primary. It doesn't need a bunch of bells and whistles. It just needs to work and most octos and lower end regs will do that if properly maintained.

If you think people should spend something then encourage them to spend more time practicing the skills to resolve an OOA situation safely, promote the concept of gear maintenance and, of course, persuade them to practice good gas management skills (Always a good way to avoid being OOA, right?).

I would like to point out that the two times I ran out of air, I didn't grab a regulator out of anyone's mouth...

It's good that you have a calm demeanor. You'll probably make a great DM. Unfortunately, there are many people who don't and there are plenty of us who have seen someone grab a reg out of someone else's mouth. It happens. It's the worst case scenario and it's rare, but don't you want to plan for the worst case scenario?

 

[Web Monkey]

That's ridiculous. Why would you dive with anyone who isn't responsible enough to maintain all of their equipment, including their secondary air source?

As a DM, I'd expect that you've seen quite a few octos dragging through the sand.

Out of everybody you've led dives for, what percentage could you comfortably go up to, signal OOA and grab their backup, having confidence that you'll get air, and not spiders, dirt or water?

Conversely, if you mugged someone (just a random diver, not someone you train with) for their primary, how confident are you that there won't be two people fighting for one working reg?

Terry

 

[k-valve]

As a DM, I'd expect that you've seen quite a few octos dragging through the sand.

Out of everybody you've led dives for, what percentage could you comfortably go up to, signal OOA and grab their backup, having confidence that you'll get air, and not spiders, dirt or water?

That's a good reason to maintain and check your gear before going for a dive, not for spending and inordinate amount of money on a reg. Besides, an $500 backup isn't going to work any better full of sand than a $200 octo.

Conversely, if you mugged someone (just a random diver, not someone you train with) for their primary, how confident are you that there won't be two people fighting for one working reg?

First of all, Monkey, I am not the type to "mug" someone for their reg. Secondly, I would be very confident because I do a gear check with even my regular buddies before we head down. In fact, we do a gear check, gas check, reaffirm 1/3s if it's a technical dive, and sometimes practice and S-Drill. If the secondary, or any gear, isn't working properly or placed correctly we don't dive until we fix it. If you are not doing these checks before diving then you're asking for trouble.

BTW, that's not a good reason to spend a ton of money on a secondary either IMHO.

 

[John_B]

That's a good reason to maintain and check your gear before going for a dive, not for spending and inordinate amount of money on a reg. Besides, an $500 backup isn't going to work any better full of sand than a $200 octo.

I think you are right, any reg that gets dragged through the sand is going to be worthless as an octo. No matter how much you spend on it.

Its a shame nobody has figured out an alternate configuration... Maybe one where the primary is on a long enough hose to hand off and the secondary is actually used by the donating diver? Hmmmm. The secondary would have to pretty much be right there. I wonder...

 

[Lightning Fish]

...If you are diving with the average diver, they probably can't take advantage of the separation afforded by the long hose and still maintain buoyancy control anyways. **** hits the fan at 50' they are going to head up, regardless of whether they have a short hose or a long hose in their mouth....

Last year I did some air sharing drills with a diver who was on a standard setup, whereas I use a 7' hose and bungied second. The other diver doesn't dive much and skulls with his hands to maintain their orientation in the water and aid with bouyancy control.

When I donated my long hose to them, they were quite capable of maintaining their depth in the water column and keep a 5' distance from me. However, when they donated their oct to me, and we clamped hands to forearms as we were taught, we sank. When one of their hands was occupied, their method of bouyancy control was compromised.

I don't know if the above can apply to everyone, but seems to me that if someone relies on their hands for bouyancy and a hand is taken away... a long hose may be better as the separation distance allows them to still use their hands.

Cheers,
Bill.

 

[Web Monkey]

First of all, Monkey, I am not the type to "mug" someone for their reg. Secondly, I would be very confident because I do a gear check with even my regular buddies before we head down.

That's great for diving with your tech buddies, but your badge says "DM" and i was inquiring what your confidence level would be for getting air from a random diver, on a guided dive, for example.

Terry

 

[Nitroxic]

I have a quick question I'd like to interject. I've been diving for about a year, and am already fairly streamlined, but I'm not happy with my current hose configuration. I am planning to convert to a neck lanyard style Octo holder, probably the rubber units I've seen a stores, a 22" secondary hose and a longer primary hose (40", 5' or 7'). My question is, do you wrap up the slack in the 5'-7' hose somehow or do you let 7'-5' of hose just kinda bow around you? I can't imagine the latter. What methods are used to stow the slack? I am looking at possibly going with Miflex hoses.

Anything wrong with the rubber Octo Lanyards, are the bungee style better for any reason?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ucfdiver]

I have a quick question I'd like to interject. I've been diving for about a year, and am already fairly streamlined, but I'm not happy with my current hose configuration. I am planning to convert to a neck lanyard style Octo holder, probably the rubber units I've seen a stores, a 22" secondary hose and a longer primary hose (40", 5' or 7'). My question is, do you wrap up the slack in the 5'-7' hose somehow or do you let 7'-5' of hose just kinda bow around you? I can't imagine the latter. What methods are used to stow the slack? I am looking at possibly going with Miflex hoses.

Anything wrong with the rubber Octo Lanyards, are the bungee style better for any reason?

Thanks in advance.

As you can see, it goes down the back, under the can light (or stuffed in waist band) across your body, around your neck, and to your mouth.

If you're interested in getting your gear squared away, I found this dvd very informative, and for $60, it's a bargain.
DIR 2004 | Global Underwater Explorers

 

[TSandM]

The rubber Manta necklaces are fine for some second stages; if your mouthpiece is too small, they won't stay on. The length of them is not adjustable, and if it's okay for you then it's great, but if they are too long there's no practical way to shorten them.

As shown in the photograph, the seven foot hose routes down your back, under a light, knife or pocket on your right hip, up across your chest, behind your neck and to your mouth. If you have nothing at your right hip, you can fold up the extra and stuff it under your waistband; I never liked that much, because the waist band has to be pretty tight to keep it in place. If you don't dive with a canister light, or dive with a traditional BC, I think you are better off with the 5' hose, which routes under your right armpit, across your chest, behind your neck and to your mouth. The only problem with this arrangement is that for some larger people, with broader shoulders or chests, the 5' hose isn't long enough and you need a 6', and it's hard to know that ahead of time, so you may end up buying two hoses before you get it right.

The 40" hose routes under your right arm and to your mouth. This brings the hose up at an angle, and in general, the regulator won't sit comfortably in your mouth without some kind of angled connector.

I think the Miflex hoses are a great idea for the backup regulator, and I'm probably going to put them on my rigs in that position. The only people I've talked to who have used a Miflex 7' hose have not liked it. It seems that the 7' hose routes better and stays in place better if it's a bit stiffer. A Miflex 5' hose might solve the "not quite long enough" problem, though.

 

[Nitroxic]

Thanks precisely what I needed to know. I may have to look into that DVD.

I am not planning to cave or wreck dive, but I've always appreciated a minimalist. KISS approach in most things I do. I'm debating on running a 40" hose for OW, this obviously wouldn't route as in the photo, just under the arm, possibly with a 90 degree elbow, I presume.