Spin Off: Do you refuse to dive with a DM/quide in a new location?

[peterbj7]

Who's Catherine (and when's she coming here!)?

 

[Nemrod]

You see, I am old fashioned, I like to do my own dive, my way. If I need help I will ask. If somebody needs help from me I will glady render it, otherwise I like being left to my own devices. Nothing new, been that way always. I have my interests and it is my money and valuable time, if some people want to be tended that is fine but realize that some people do not. Sink or swim, I did it my way.

I have a few times hired a guide, I made the arrnagements, I made it clear he was working for me and I was the boss. He was there to provide expert paid help. I listen to the advice, take it into account, then I make MY plan for my dive.

If I sign onto a dive or charter knowing up front they are hand holders then that is a decision I made and therefore I try and play within their rules. Generally I severely avoid such circumstances to begin with as over the years they have generally led to unfullfilling experiences. Admittedly, there have been a few exceptions. One of our most memorable dives, my wife and I hired a boat to ourselves. The skipper and his three (3) girlfirnds were super nice and knowledgeable. When we got to the place we wanted to go the skipper geared up. Once in the water he proved to be Tarzan of the Deep. He had a friendship with virtually ever critter on the reef and they came to him as if he were the Pet Detective. It was amazing.

Here he is:

While on the subject, I don't want my gear adjusted or touched, my valves tweaked, my gear critiqued, no tests.

I am sorry that it seems so many people feel they should have control over others. Some people are just not going to be handled. We are still wild creatures, we live uneasily within an increasingly mind numbing and constrictive world.

N

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

The vast majority of charter diving in Hawaii is guided. There is debate as to whether it's a law, the term supervised is subject to interpretation in some eyes, but it is in the regulation and 99% of the charters have a guide for every 6 or less guest divers. As Charlie has stated; with familiarity, competent repeat divers usually have more leeway. Catherine's perspective is unique, as she is not only inteligent, head strong, experienced and stunning, she also usually has military back-up. Although no guide has ever spanked her, I'm sure others have contemplated it as well.

Even shore diving, depending on the site, I would seek an experienced guide for the first dive or so. Some dives do not require a first time guide, some do (if you want to see the good stuff). I know for a fact that many arrogant experienced divers who come to Hawaii and only do non-guided shore dives have left Hawaii without having as good a dive as many non-certified resort intro divers.

In Palau, a good dive guide really makes a big difference in the quality of the show. It would be a pretty bad idea to come here and dive without a guide. Maybe it's different in other places, I don't know.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

Everyone went in the water at the same time but we were told do just do our own thing and be back in 60 mins.

The only thing that bothers me about this plan is that the an emergency could cause the boat to leave with an injured diver, and you would be left in the water. If you aren't with the group, you might not notice everyone ascending, and by the time you figured out what was going on, it would be too late.

That actually happened, by the way. Two divers (i think) were left adrift when the boat they came out on took an injured diver in the group to the hospital. The boat driver was left with the option of taking the injured diver back or waiting until the last buddy pair found out what was going on and surfaced. He decided the injured diver might die if they waited, so he left the lagging buddy pair to float in the water.

That incident leds me to believe that everyone that comes out on a boat should stay grouped up. At least enough so that you are paying attention to what is happening to the divers that came out with you.

 

[scubamickey]

The only thing that bothers me about this plan is that the an emergency could cause the boat to leave with an injured diver, and you would be left in the water. If you aren't with the group, you might not notice everyone ascending, and by the time you figured out what was going on, it would be too late.

That actually happened, by the way. Two divers (i think) were left adrift when the boat they came out on took an injured diver in the group to the hospital. The boat driver was left with the option of taking the injured diver back or waiting until the last buddy pair found out what was going on and surfaced. He decided the injured diver might die if they waited, so he left the lagging buddy pair to float in the water.

That incident leds me to believe that everyone that comes out on a boat should stay grouped up. At least enough so that you are paying attention to what is happening to the divers that came out with you.

That's what the recall system is for. It's not like you are diving 1/2 a mile away. You are still on the same dive site. A diver recall would be heard by everyone in the area assuming they know what they are hearing.

This is the way we dive in many places in the US, to include Alaska, Florida, and Hawaii. It's not dangerous. It's common practice. I'm shocked that you only seem to be familiar with hand holding dives.

 

[Cabbie]

I've been a boats that had recall procedures in an emergency to get divers back on board. They were never used, so don't know how effective it would have been.

I've also been on boat which left a couple of divers behind because they didn't do a roll call. I was on the boat with a DM from another shop who was the one who noticed that we were short a couple of divers. Have since refused to dive with that particular outfit.

Generally I like to have a DM who is slow and knowledgeable. As others have said, they can find the "local" stuff that you might otherwise miss. I also like it when after a couple of days and they know my style, they leave me to follow at my own pace.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

This is the way we dive in many places in the US, to include Alaska, Florida, and Hawaii. It's not dangerous. It's common practice. I'm shocked that you only seem to be familiar with hand holding dives.

This is the second time in this thread that you include Hawaii in this "I dive my way" speak. How many charter dives have you made in Hawaii and with which charters?

I assure you, 99.9% of vacation boat divers are led by a guide here in Hawaii. Only those with connections get to dive on their own here. It is most certainly not common practice here!

 

[String]

Only effective diver recall ive seen is thunderflash. None of the other methods are very effective for recovering divers from a 4-500m spread around the boat.

If for some bizarre reason a diveboat had to leave with an injured diver (cant imagine a situation as to why though given a pan pan call would get a lifeboat and helicopter out faster) then standard would be to use a pan pan and other boats in the area to make their way to assist with the people left.

 

[Garrobo]

Most of what JoyfulNoise said.

 

[Hank49]

There are sites where you could have a really bad dive if you didn't follow an experienced guide. And if you don't stay in a group with the guide, your boat will be in a tough spot trying to find you all in semi rough seas possibly 1/2 mile or more from the drop zone.
Yapak 2 on Boracay is such a site. If the boat man doesn't drop you just right and you don't get down to 100 feet quickly, the current will blow you right past the target wall, which is perpendicular to the current. If you do that, you're in for a 60 foot dive on sand. When ascending in very strong currents, if you don't gently swim southeast, the boat will have a harder time finding and picking you up and it will be right in the standing waves, caused by wind and current, where the current is strongest.
When you're a guide there, it would really piss you off if someone just went down and didn't listen to the plan and follow you.