Should C-Cards Expire?

[navy85]

for OW and AOW. Perhaps dive operators could do a little better job checking C-cards or log books.

If there is a move towards recertification, by all means there should be a mechanism to demonstrate proficiency through a certain number of logged dives, additional training, or a combination. Many industry certifications (self-regulated) have a point system for recertification, which is generally every three years. Typically, a certain number of points are awarded for remaining active (i.e. employed) in the discipline; attending relevant training, conferences, or symposia; teaching relevant subjects, and similar activities that demonstrate the individual is maintaining proficiency and participating in that field.

As for DMs and instructors, there should be a recertification process if there already isn't one (sounds as if SSI does have one) to help keep them active in the field and up-to-date. The system described above is one way, but a "monitor" sounds like a good way to go.

Note that recertifying <> requalifying, but a demonstration of proficiency through one of several means.

 

[H2OHead]

navy85 once bubbled...
for OW and AOW. Perhaps dive operators could do a little better job checking C-cards or log books.

So you propose that I start a logbook for open water dives (because my last OW entry is from 10 years ago) so I can give it to a dive shop if they ask for it?

 

[Dan Gibson]

The problem is that Darwin does not have the best aim;-)

jwnca once bubbled...


Oh if this were only true. All the gene pools that produce stupid people would die out.

 

[Epinephelus]

H2OHead once bubbled...
So you propose that I start a logbook for open water dives (because my last OW entry is from 10 years ago) so I can give it to a dive shop if they ask for it?

Good idea....
I for one didn't log any of my dives for over two decades - now I do. The principle reason for doing so is to satisfy the requirement to show recent experience/proficiency at dive shops around the world, a requirement which is becoming more prevalent every day. It doesn't matter if I agree with the policy or not - sorta like the weather, it's a good idea to dress for it.
E.

 

[Dan Gibson]

If my understanding is correct, GUE cards are not the property of the diver. You are required to surrender if asked by GUE or renew it when required. I would think it is the same as a drivers license or credit card. Neither of those truely belong to the holder.

sheck33 once bubbled...
i voted yes, cards should expire, however, i do not think the diver needs to do the same course all over again, that makes no sense. As of yet GUE is the only training organisation who's cards have an expiration date, as far as i know you have to log a certain number of dives at certain level, not sure of details, to make sure you stay proficient at the skills needed to dive at 'that' level. What is unclear to me at this point is how this can really be enforced, you cant guard against idiots that just invent dives to fill their logbook. So in principle i think it is a great idea but i dont know how to really implement it......

just my 3 cents..

 

[MikeFerrara]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...

As an SSI instructor I must be "affiliated" with a shop - that's quite different than being "required to teach through a shop." The affiliated shop is where my monitor is - the guy responsible for keeping an eye on my instruction, and where I get my teaching supplies and where I get my students' C-cards. I am perfectly free to procure my own students and teach off-site. Certainly the SSI structure is designed to promote the LDS' survival and the scuba industry as a whole - and that includes equipment sales. But in my case, for example, I'm not a salesman per se - though I do recommend that my students buy through the shop. However, the characterization of "instruction being tied to equipment sales" is innacurate at best and misleading. It would be fair to say that SSI instructors promote equipment sales. But at the shop where I am affiliated we instructors have never turned anyone away because they've bought all their stuff elsewhere.
Rick

Good explaination. Thanks.

 

[Barracuda2]

I don't know the present stats on diver drop-out; at one time it use to be pretty high. (people getting certified then diving once or twice and quit the activity ) Any form of "extra activities" loaded onto cert. divers in order to maintain their cert. in my opinion would be very detrimental to the diving industry and would only push out more divers as well as discourage people to become a diver. Also, trying to administer the "upkeep" and record keeping of who is eligible to dive "that year" would only create another money-sucking bureaucratic monster that would make life miserable for divers, instructors, shops, and dive tour operators. I'm just afraid that when the sharks (lawyers) are done with milking everything they can out of the fast-food industry for making Americans fat, just like they did with the tobacco industry for giving Americans lung cancer, they will then set their sights on our activity and force us to regulate ourselves right out of the water. The only people I can see benefitting from expiration dates on C cards are instructors. Those who have the passion for diving will fork out the $50-200 each year or every 5 yrs. to keep their cert.(that was not a comment against instructors, just a factual observation. ) the rest will drop out, and many won't come in. LEAVE IT ALONE!

Barracuda2

 

[Krisscuba]

DM and instructor cards already expire every year for teaching purposes. To renew you just have to fill out the form,....the one the bank gives you for your checking acount and fill the proper information, .. like $125.00

http://www.geocities.com/krisl_1999/bumper_sticker.html

 

[sheck33]

Barracuda2 once bubbled...
I don't know the present stats on diver drop-out; at one time it use to be pretty high. (people getting certified then diving once or twice and quit the activity ) Any form of "extra activities" loaded onto cert. divers in order to maintain their cert. in my opinion would be very detrimental to the diving industry..................

of course, my god lets not require divers to put any effort into it, lets keep it as simple as possible. It is all about money after all, who cares about competence :upset:

thank god for the large dropout of new divers that had no business being in the water in the first place.

yea, and i want to be taught by an 'instructor' who got his instructor card 20 years ago but hase not been in the water for the last 10 years. And all he needs to do is fork out some money for liability insurance and he is 'ready to go teach again'
his instructor card never expired ya know

it is ridiculous

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I met a diver in the LDS this weekend you started diving in the 60's and tooka coupel decades off. to his credit he is taking a refresher course, which in this case consites of sitting in on a complete OW course. So far he is appalled at what new students are not taught and agrees that it is a case of the dive industry doing what is good for business by making it easy for anyone to become certified. Knowledge of gas laws and other unimportant stuff like adequate swimming ability no longer seem to be a requirement.

He is also a pilot and feels that if you are going to have a recert of some type, like the FAA required biennial flight reveiw, then you also need to have standards that actually mean something. Given what's happened to OW standards, what are the odds of the standards for a recert for a C-card being meaningful?