Lessons for Life - June Issue of Scuba Diving

[JMcD]

Gee... Did you really intend to resurrect an argument from May?? Been away Diving?

 

[MikeFerrara]

LOL, pardon me. I've been in the continuous manufacturing and processing industry for 21 years, the last 1/2 of which has been in the manufacturing of software and technologies that provide the very benefits I mentioned. The software, tools, and products produced by the companies I've worked for control 90% of all the manufacturing in the world. First off my comments were not intended to focus only statistical process control, a fine foundation thought it may be.

If you tell me what software, tools, and products you're talking about, I'll tell you if I've seen it used in 90% of the manufacturing that I've seen. 90% is a big claim. I'm kind of anxious to hear what these products are because I can't think of any that I've seen used 90% of the time.

The "test step" isn't separate as it once was, thanks to modern advances.

Well, I can think of product after product where there are in fact many seperate test oporations, dispite whatever advances you're refering to.

As you correctly pointed out measurments are necessary. As the instruments and software improve in this area the line begins to blur. In the industry I specifically used in my previous example, electronic component manufacturing, the process no longer requires interruption, makes continous live improvements and corrections. The point I was making was comparing modern methodologies to the old fashioned approach of pulling items from the line for labs, or in some cases shutting down the process to make corrections.

It depends on the type of testing and manufacturing you're talking about. For instance, reliability or test to failure requirements are often met by pulling samples from the line and placing them in lengthy test schedules...in the lab. AS the name "test to failure" suggestes, components are sometimes tested to destruction.

Other testing like the incmoming inspection of purchased components or subassemblies is common enough. It might be done on the "dock" or in a lab, depending on the type of testing but the test is a seperate oporation.

In process or "end of line" tests are done in the actual manufacuring but often involve descrete oporations and even "seperate" pieces of equipment.

Various types of audit testing are used and just like incoming, reliability/test to failure, design revalidation ect, are done offline. Sometimes in a lab but usually in seperate processes and equipment, hence the term "audit".

Regarding your comment "SPC ... has not and never will negate the need for in process audits " likely you are regurgitating some statement from a mentor or instructor, but I won't presume, just saying that is most likely.

Not likely at all.

Possibly we are talking about the same thing but misundertanding each other.

It sounds like we're talking about completely different kinds of manufacturing.

The advances being made do not separate these functions, they are more innate. Some widgets are now able to TELL YOU when they need corrections, I've helped design some of them. And others make self-corrections. I consider myself an evangelist of sorts and am passionate about overturning such misunderstandings. I will never see the 'testing' and 'auditing' processes as seperate or independant from the continuous manufacturing process and the teams I work with work each day, with every advancement, to blurr past "lines" of ignorance and misunderstanding once drawn. Such strongly entrenched things are however difficult admittedly to overturn.

If by "continuous manufacturing" you mean continuous flow, it may not be as common as you think. There's plenty of batch or semi-batch manufacturing out there and I don't see that changing any time soon. There's lots of non-automated fabrication and assembly out there and the widgets don't talk at all. And then there are the many cases of manual assembly where automatic testing in employed and about every other combination you could think of.

 

[CAPT HOOK]

I first heard this "story" about 4 or 5 years ago; sounds like they have resorted to reporting "urban myths" !

 

[Buoyant1]

Gee... Did you really intend to resurrect an argument from May?? Been away Diving?

Well...people usually get chastised for creating new threads and not searching on old ones...can't really fault him for that :shakehead

 

[DiverBuoy]

If you tell me what software, tools, and products you're talking about, I'll tell you if I've seen it used in 90% of the manufacturing that I've seen. 90% is a big claim. I'm kind of anxious to hear what these products are because I can't think of any that I've seen used 90% of the time.

Wonderware, Intellution & SIMATIC IT.

In process or "end of line" tests are done in the actual manufacuring but often involve descrete oporations and even "seperate" pieces of equipment.

By industry I refer to discrete (car & cell phone), continuous (oil, gas, chemical), and batch (food and pharmacuticals) types of processing and manufacture.

Various types of audit testing are used and just like incoming, reliability/test to failure, design revalidation ect, are done offline. Sometimes in a lab but usually in seperate processes and equipment, hence the term "audit".

embracing the "future" more and more companies are not doing offline testing all samples remain in the grid and become part of final product, "no loss" processing.

It sounds like we're talking about completely different kinds of manufacturing.

perhaps, why not mention specific products and companies so we can compare apples to apples.

If by "continuous manufacturing" you mean continuous flow, it may not be as common as you think. There's plenty of batch or semi-batch manufacturing out there and I don't see that changing any time soon. There's lots of non-automated fabrication and assembly out there and the widgets don't talk at all. And then there are the many cases of manual assembly where automatic testing in employed and about every other combination you could think of.

Actually batch manufacturers like Anheiser Busch, Sara Lee, Foster Farms, Kraft, and Carnation to name a few are first adopters making radical changes. Which companies or products are you refering to?