Protect Lake Pleasant

[scubajcf]

Full disclosure seems to win a lot of friends on this board.

My two cents: You have come to a scuba forum looking for support for the new marina. We're going to be a tough crowd since the new marina sits right on top of a VERY popular dive site. However, I think a fair compromise for a lot of people in the Maricopa County area (thousands of scuba divers and 20+ scuba businesses) would be a proposal to set up a designated dive area. This is done at many lakes around the country (scuba parks). I think the project would get a lot of support if that was included in the mix.

Hopefully you are someone with some influence.

Respectfully suggested,

John Flanders
Oasis Divers Inc.
www.azdivers.com

Downtown Scuba
www.downtownscuba.com

 

[shark.byte.usa]

Full disclosure seems to win a lot of friends on this board.

My two cents: You have come to a scuba forum looking for support for the new marina.

I agree John on the full disclosure. But you got it backwards the new member is trying to shut down the new marina, not gain support for it

I would love to see a Scuba Park at Lake Pleasant if not Scorpion Bay then someplace else. And have some stuff sunk, like a houseboat (hmmm someone not paying their slip fees )

-Garrett

 

[ffbsm85]

However, I wonder what your motivation is. You just joined ScubaBoard and have made only 3 posts, all of them in this thread.

Would you care to tell us who you are and what your interests in this are?

I stumbled across the coalitions website and wrote them suggesting they might get some support from the dive community that frequents Scorpion Bay and gave them the link to SB and the LP conditions thread. I originally posted the site on the LP conditions thread just to see what everyone’s opinions on the matter were. But yes I agree with you, I’d like to know more about this guy and his interests.

As for my opinion, I’m with Garrett

Thanks, that's a good article, but for me the fact remains that I don't want a Marina there any BS aside it's my favorite local dive site and if the current marina wants to fund the lobbying to stop it being built, so be it, if even for Holcomb and Pensus' selfish reasons. And let's face it, it's all about money on both sides of the argument anyway.

-Garrett

I’ve only done my OW class there but already really like Scorpion Bay. If I ever get a boat or know someone that has a boat and want to do the whole “boating thing”, I know where to go, but I like the way the rest of the lake is. Like Garrett said, I don’t want it there and if the other marina is funding the coalition to stop it, so be it.

 

[Basil_AZ]

Dive-aholic,

Thank you for your questions and (I hope) support. My motive for joining this board and posting here is that the coalition was informed that many members here would be interested in learning about and joing the Protect Lake Pleasant Coalition. It is our goal to build as large a coalition as is possible and it seems only logical that many members of this board would be interested in, at least, learning how Maricopa County was illegally building a new marina without taking in the concerns of the patrons of the lake or doing the necessary studies that would determine the consequences of adding a new marina, such as an Environmental Impact Statement, that is also required under Federal law.

As I previously stated, the primary goal of the Coalition is to ensure that our laws are not ignored and violated by our own county government. Why should Maricopa County Supervisors be above the law? It seems to me that there must be a reason why the County chose to repeatedly break the law. Normally when a politician does this it is for some personal gain. I wonder what kickbacks they are expecting...?

If this abuse of power outrages you as much as it did me I would implore you to visit www.protectlakepleasant.org and join our coalition.

Thank you!

 

[krcollins]

One, the BOR must do an Environmental Impact Study (EIS), as required by law and their own statutes.

Basil_AZ,

Let me first say that I too am against the new marina because it will take away my favorite diving spot in the lake, but please check your facts before you make claims with the hopes of persuading others to join your cause.

The National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) is the federal law that regulates this project since BOR (a federal agency) is responsible for the water management in the lake. NEPA can be satified in a variety of ways:

1) A categorical exclusion (cat ex). Pretty rare and only applicable in a strict definition of project types that were written into the original law when it was drafted in 1969 and amended in 1990.

2) An Environmental Assessment. Usually the first step in NEPA compliance (if not cat ex). Results in either a finding of no significant impact (FONSI) or a determination that the project is likely to adversly effect the environment. "Environment" means everything from water and air quality, biology, geology, cultural resources, effect on recreation, environmental justice and other categories. An open public comment period is a requirement of an EA, and must be considered by the federal nexus (BOR in this case) before making a determination.

3) Environmental Impact Statement (not "Study") If an adverse effect determination is made from the EA process, the federal nexus will usually kick it up to a Environment Impact Statement since it feels that more analysis is required.

BOR obviously felt that there was no significant impact from this project based on the findings of the environmenal studies and public comments. Since the public comment period is over, and a FONSI has been issued, I'm afraid your only option is to file suit against the BOR in federal court. This happens all the time.

It does not seem that the BOR violated any laws in its handling of the NEPA process here since it conducted an EA, gathered public comments, then issued a FONSI. It followed NEPA to the letter of the law as required.

 

[shark.byte.usa]

too many acronyms makes my head hurt :11:

 

[Basil_AZ]

KR-Collins,

Thank you for your comments. My facts are accurate but you have done an excellent job of giving me reason to be more detailed in my comments.

Our lawyers are currently suing the BOR for violating the law. Apparently the BOR office of jurisdiction, out of Colorado, refused to issue a FONSI but, regardless, one was issued by the local Arizona office. Dr. Glen Hass, with the BOR office of jurisdiction in Colorado, states that the draft EA is not legally sufficient. You can read more about this by going here.

I noticed yesterday that I was writing "study" instead of "statement" but for some reason it will not allow me to edit those posts - thank you for the correction, though.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Basil, you still haven't advised us who you are. I'm guessing you are part of the Protect Lake Pleasant group, but what exactly is your position in this?

 

[Basil_AZ]

Basil, you still haven't advised us who you are. I'm guessing you are part of the Protect Lake Pleasant group, but what exactly is your position in this?

I am a member of the Coalition who was asked by Alan Holcomb to reach out to different Outdoors groups in hopes of persuading others to join.

There are a number of reasons why one may oppose a second marina.

For me, I am absolutely outraged by the abuses of our elected County officials. The arrogance of these men who think they are above the law truly disturbs me. I hope it would disturb others as well. You know this is not the first time Bill Scalzo, Assistant County Manager of Maricopa County, and County Supervisor Don Stapley have tried to add a second marina. The first two times they also tried to illegally close the bidding process but were slapped down and forced to follow the law. However their tactic is to wait a few years and try their scam again. I believe it is dangerous to have elected officials who have that much disdain for our laws.

During one of the bidding processes Mr. Finch won the bid by more than double of the next bid. Was he awarded the contract? No. Instead they went to a second round of bidding and awarded it to a man who, this time, had a slightly higher bid. Somehow the man knew exactly how much to bid to win the award. Mr. Finch started to investigate this man and he discovered that he was prohibited by court order from borrowing money. However, Scalzo was still content with awarding him the contract. Amazing, yes? It gets worse. The man’s reference was a Manhattan bank. Mr. Finch flew to NYC and, surprisingly, no such bank even existed. So much for the County’s due diligence… The County did not award the contract to the next highest bidder as you probably now assumed but simply tabled to contract.

My parting question is is it rational to assume that politicians would so willingly and repeatedly violate the law if they had nothing personal to gain?

 

[Charles R]

Sounds to me like 2008 is right around the corner and the political BS is starting to fly. Me personally I do not get involved with politics like this. I do like the Scorpion Bay and do not with to see it destroyed by a new marina but this coalition seems to be politically motivated and not in the interest of stopping the marina its self but giving someone else the chance to build it.