Scuba Death Leads to Lawsuit Settlement Against American Medical Response

[Thalassamania]

Thanks for clarifying your motive.

But I'm still confused as to why the ScubaBoard Record is so important that something needs to be dredged up to be included in it. As a matter of fact, now that I think of it, I didn't realize there was a ScubaBoard Record in a research and analysis sense.

Why so touchy? Have I tread on something I ought not have? I did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings.:huh:

 

[ArcticDiver]

Why so touchy? Have I tread on something I ought not have? I did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings.:huh:

Sorry; didn't mean to come across that way.

Let me try again.

When I see a post like this for a historical event I try to think of why it was posted. I couldn't see why; espceially when folks took off on the EMS rules rather than the actions of those particular responders.

When you replied that it was "for the record" then I was really confused.

Now, it seems to me what you wanted was just to let people know this event happened and others sort of took off on a tangent of mistakenly generalizing their personal opinions; thus adding to the confusion.

All is well.

 

[fireman0232]

I am a firefighter/ paramedic for 12 yrs, I work for a fire dept that also provides EMS service, I have worked around both AMR and Rural / Metro and for the most part have we have the same standing orders. I do have a few questions.

Since this was a person that was uncons, did the fire department respond with AMR ?
If so did they have a paramedic ? If not may be thats why they stopped CPR because they were tired after 20 + minutes, or they only had one person in the back while the other had to drive. I am not defending them just asking questions since that information is not know.

I can say in Georgia the only time you can stopp CPR is a valid DNR, you call medical control ( Talk to Doctor not nurse ) or have no help and become to tired to perform proper CPR.

 

[wedivebc]

Sorry; didn't mean to come across that way.

Let me try again.

When I see a post like this for a historical event I try to think of why it was posted. I couldn't see why; espceially when folks took off on the EMS rules rather than the actions of those particular responders.

When you replied that it was "for the record" then I was really confused.

Now, it seems to me what you wanted was just to let people know this event happened and others sort of took off on a tangent of mistakenly generalizing their personal opinions; thus adding to the confusion.

All is well.

Very often when a scuba accident occurs very little is said after the initial news report and all is forgotten. I remember when this occured and I was very interested if the paramedics involved would be held accountable back when this happened, what 5 years ago or so.
I am glad this was posted as when I first heard this story from the victim's fiance I thought it was too incredible to believe.

 

[Bspurr13]

Just want to clear up a few things here. I have been a Paramedic for almost 13 years, the last 6.5 on a lifeflight helicopter. I was an EMT for 2 years before that.

The first thing I want to point out is that the term “medic” typically refers to a Paramedic, not an EMT. Yeas there is a large difference between an EMT and a Paramedic – but all Paramedics have to start as EMTs. The difference is bigger in some areas of the country, where the Paramedics scope is larger.

As far as the resuscitation goes – or more specifically, the withdrawal of resuscitative efforts in this case – it is common practice in some areas to stop resuscitation WITTHOUT a doctors orders. In the area of CA that I work in, I am able to provide the same resuscitative care that the patient would receive in an emergency room. So, when it is ineffective, I am also able to determine that the patient is beyond resuscitation and declare the patient dead; All this without even contacting a hospital or doctor.

The thing that disturbs me about this case (obviously the heroin is quite disturbing) was the fact that the Base hospital doc ordered the medics to restart their efforts – which means something didn’t sound right to him/her – there was a screw up somewhere along the way.

All I know is that I wouldn’t want a couple of strung out junkies showing up at my emergency – who knows how it could have gone, had a decent medic team responded….

Brett

 

[Jorbar1551]

IMO, i think it was a stupid decision to give away the contract from AMR to another private company. Im not against private companies, but there are some that are hanging on by a thread. I think AMR has the best reputation, out of all the other companies. There are always one or two people that mess things up for the rest of us.

 

[Cacia]

I am able to provide the same resuscitative care that the patient would receive in an emergency room. So, when it is ineffective, I am also able to determine that the patient is beyond resuscitation and declare the patient dead;

Thanks for that, I wanted to know. Is this a standard protocol..mandated by the county?

"in the area of Ca" I know Tamecula used to be pretty rural, I bet its not now.
That's not SD county is it?

the term medic gets confused a lot...and then they call some in the military "doc" I noticed.

 

[IlikeItwetPls]

I can say in Georgia the only time you can stopp CPR is a valid DNR, you call medical control ( Talk to Doctor not nurse ) or have no help and become to tired to perform proper CPR.

I have been a Paramedic in Georgia for 21 years, and in the event you can't continue CPR, then stopping is appropriate. However, as another poster stated, each State, county, and city can determine their protocols for CPR (which normally follows American Heart or Red Cross), and the service medical director may have protocols for stopping CPR without transport to a E.D. As with the service I currently work for, this is pretty straight forward. Persistent asystole(checked in two leads); must be intubated, two rounds of meds. (following ACLS protocol), and must not be in a public place, (meaning, you can't work the code in a mall, etc. with no change, and leave the body there).

Also, the hiring of pvt. ambulance services is the norm now because of promises the companies make the local government entities..."we can do it cheaper and better", but this causes problems for all after several years. The pvt. ambulance services always put the dollar first, and the patient second. They swear they don't, but I have worked for several,and it never fails, the dollar wins.
Just thought you'd like to know.

 

[Cacia]

They swear they don't, but I have worked for several,and it never fails, the dollar wins.
Just thought you'd like to know.

I have to say, that's what I have observed.

and I am basically for privatizing everything...but something about ambulance companies and having a more transient work force and an emphasis on profit just always seemed to be inferior to the Fire Department municipal model, from what I have seen. Which has really only been three states...

 

[ArcticDiver]

It is good to get some input from others to point out that medical licenses/certificates are issued by each State. Each State then has the right, and exercises that right, to adopt selection, training and performance criteria that suit that State. This is true in almost all of the medical specialties.

In addition many states allow medical directors to add responsibility and authority for their specific jurisdiction after getting State approval. Of course for the folks in unionized departments what they can and cannot do is affected by the labor contract. So, I don't think one can generalize to any significant degree.

On of the oddities I discovered when I first started in the business was that in a couple states the EMS folks couldn't declare death but the local law enforcement, without any specific training, could.

As far as the impact of money: Money or lack thereof, drives a lot of medical decisions and treatments throughout the system. This goes all the way from personal decisions by the professional staff to lobbying and legal efforts by hospitals and clinics to treatments authorized by insurance companies and HMOs.

But back to the original post: These folks who messed around with drugs and may as a result have provided inferior treatment are to be despised by everyone. We had a guy in our Department who raided the drug locker. He went bye bye in a hurry. Unfortunately he didn't go to jail because management made a control procedure error. Frankly, I don't know how someone could live with themself if they didn't give the most appropriate treatment due to something like drug abuse.