Gloves in warm water

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Newhampster once bubbled...
The underwater world isn't yours (or mine) to destroy. It belongs to the world and our future generations...unless we kill it off with our selfishness first.


I agree that the underwater world should not be mishandled and destroyed, but I don't think that just by touching something it will be destroyed. I strive to be a very careful and considerate diver, yet, I have often touched underwater objects with a very gentle finger to see what the texture is like. Sort of gentle petting. Unfortuneately, there have been those times that my buoyancy got out of control and I hit hard. At no time was any malice intended. It is important for me to be able to "interact" with the underwater world and I don't think that the mere touching will destroy the object. Now smashing it will. Corals, et al, have survived much more than the gentle touch I do and I would hope that other divers are gentle too. I also am not nieve to think that there are not others who destroy for the sake of destructing something. They are probably like that with land objects as well.
 
I wear thin reef gloves, but am so aware of not touching things I don't even do a one-finger hold on dead coral when angling for a photograph. I more than hesitate to put a hand down in the sand to give me a pause when in current. I'd have to be in an emergency situation to abuse any living thing in the water.

That said, it would be reasonable to ask why I'd wear gloves at all? I have lupus, and even the filtered sun exposure on my hands can result in harm to me. I literally need to be covered head to toe. The last time I dove without gloves, in the Bahamas, even with sunscreen, my hands got sun exposed, and it has taken almost a year to reverse the damage done.

So one way or another, I'm going to dive with gloves (even if I have to hide them in my pocket). But you can bet that the sea life has nothing to fear because I'm wearing them :)
 
I understand what everyone is saying about a no-gloves policy, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this.

I philosophically do not agree with a policy that

1) Merely addresses the symptoms of the problem without trying to eradicate the problem itself.

2) Is designed with only the least educated, least skilled of the community in mind.

Human contact with precious coral growth that often has accumuated over hundreds of years is what kills reefs...while wearing gloves might minimize that contact, I believe it is a far cry from educating divers about the environment they dive in.

"Well...there are always gonna be some divers who are a problem, so education isn't enough". I agree and I can offer my own anecdotal evidence as have many of you...but ask yourself this question:

In whose interest is this policy? Again, it might slow the rate of damage but I find it difficult to believe its going to eliminate damage altogether. The dive operators, divers, ecologists...we should all be looking for a policy that eliminates coral damage.

I don't believe this is a naive point of view. I have been on plenty of boats in the Caribbean where half of the dive briefing consisted of education about the local ecology and the negative effects that divers can have. In my experience, this is just as effective as would be any attempts to ensure that everyone is not wearing gloves...
 
Newhampster once bubbled...
The coral is going to die if I touch it, with or without gloves... what's the difference?
If touching means you could get a good fire coral burn, you're going to learn to stop touching the coral. Your words suggest you do need to be exposed to be careful.

No... You're reading what you want to read into my post. Read it this way... if I know I'll do as much damage to the coral with or without gloves, what do I need to dive without gloves for?

Lets step back and look at the legislation as a whole. So you tell someone they can't wear gloves because touching the reef is bad. They don't wear gloves, and now they are concerned about their hands hitting the reef. Their lack of diving skill puts them in a position where they are in danger of hitting the reef. Instead of picking a spot, touching with one finger to get themselves under control, they upturn themselves, and kick wildly to get off the reef, in the process smashing the s**t out of the reef. Is the reef any better because the diver wasn't wearing gloves? I'd argue that the reef is in worse shape because the diver wasn't wearing gloves.

However that has nothing to do with my point.

Legislation being used to keep from actually educating the public is the issue at hand.

How would you feel if the government told you that you had to remove all the protective covers around electrical outlets. If your child doesn't know any better to touch the electrical wires... they'll learn pretty damn quick, right?
 
Reeflover once bubbled...
FredT,
I have seen the decline in the health of reef systems over the past 10 years, from many different factors, but lets not add to it, I'd like to appreciate them for a long time to come.
Reeflover

I won't go back now because I'd like to remember The Elbow and Molasses as they were.

If you want to appreciate the keys' reefs there are a few things you should be doing.

1. Remove the water pipe from Homestead south, and from Key West north. Those who stay will have to go back to roof catch cisterns.

2. Remove 90% of the commercial dive boats working in the park


3. Eliminate all cane and other intensive farming south of "The Lake"

4. Eliminate water feed and drainage canals from The Lake south to both coasts.

5. Have the COE fill in all canals to restore water flow to the swamp south of the Lake, including removal of the I-75 water choke

Of course since none of that will happen because it will cost the PTBs too much money out of their pocket, you just have to:

6. Pray for a few Class 5 storms to walk up the straight, about 5 miles inland from A1A, followed in alternate weeks by others up the west coast just west of the shore.

The problem with the reefs in the Keys isn't warming oceans or divers with gloves, its too many nutrients in the water and WAY too many people in an area that can't support them.

The red herrings are interesting, but don't confuse them with something that actually matters!

BTW MY problem is those "regulators" who decide that the pain of others caused by rules THEY impose is not "their problem." Those folks deserve a short rope and a tall tree at best. A week or three as test subjects with the Apache as they try to recover lost cultural captive interrogation skills would be more appropriate, just not constitutional!

If you decide to risk your hands, you are entirely free to do so. I'll applaud your intent, and pity you a little (VERY little) as you heal. You may NOT decide to risk my hands!

Gee whiz, can you tell you trod on one of my major buttons?

Milk does NOT come from cartons, and meat isn't grown wrapped in film on little plastic trays. "Feel good" choices made by those who have no reality on this are almost always wrong, no matter how "PC" they are.
 
folks that think for every problem, "there oughta be a law".

I, for one, resent the "glove bans" for the same reason I resent the "shark feeding bans": A problem is percieved, reasonably or not, and a solution in the the form of an unnecessary restriction is the result.

If "gloves" are a real problem, then I would suggest that diveskins should be banned, as well. I've seen more divers "kneeing the reef" than I've ever witnessed "grabbing it".

I don't always dive with gloves, because I find it easier to operate my camera without them. Nor do I dive with a skin in warm water, preferring either a shorty or simple swim trunks and a t-shirt. But, in my pocket I always carry gloves and in my dive bag is a full jumpsuit, "just in case" conditions warrant their use. As the one going in the water and responsible for my own comfort and safety, I reserve the right to wear or use whatever I deem appropriate.

At the Flower Gardens, for example, anchoring is not allowed and boats must use the permanent moorings. Such moorings are common around most protected reefs and ALL of them are associated with stinging hydroids. Pity the diver, forced to ascend in a current and use the mooring line without gloves. Sometimes, in the Gulf, there are tremendous "jellyfish blooms" and both a skin and gloves are necessary. It is more than a simple convenience for me to be able to wipe away the long tentacles of a stinging jellyfish or man o' war with my gloved hands BEFORE I get in the boat.

I would resent any ban on what divers should wear while in the water. I would suggest that boats/localities and parks regulate BAD BEHAVIOR and not diving styles.
 
I see lots of divers standin on and kicking things. Iknow...lets take away the fins!
 
Perhaps this sounds too much like Domino theory, but I'm not keen on Governments' making restrictive decisions on my diving technique. What will this lead to? I'm with you, Spectre and AquaManiac. Let me dive safely with gloves on and I'll have more time to concentrate on not harming the underwater world. Hopefully all divers and dive boat captains are being reminded of the fragile nature of the underwater ecosystem. I do all my dives as if they are going to be on fragile landscape, be it wreck, silt, sand, or coral. If you get used to always respecting the bottom, you're bouyancy control/finning technique will improve and you will spend more time enjoying the reason you're down there in the first place. It also makes for a fun competition with your buddies - how many times did you "touch down" ...

I suppose these regulations have been the result of complaints of diver damage in those areas? Similar legislative constraints have been kicked around regarding restricting fresh water wreck access due to excessive trophy hunting. Hopefully both these issues will become less prominent in time...
 
I work at a dive operator in the Cayman Islands which has a "No Gloves" policy. The only exception is for those who have a particular medical condition for which a doctor has recommended gloves. Lupus, surgical alteration of lymph system, and history of anaphalatic reaction to marine stings are recent examples.

The Cayman Islands Watersports Association publishes a set of local standards for the dive industry. Among the many recommendations is that "we all agree that gloves are not necessary." While this is not law, our local custom is "no gloves."

I would never dream of expecting local customs and laws to be modified to suit my preferences - even if the custom relates only to the wishes or desires of the local community. It is a common arrogance among many travelers that the locales visited should be just like home.

As visitors to this island are occasionally reminded, "suitable attire" is mandatory in even the most casual of restaurants. I saw a employee refuse service to a tourist who walked into a Burger King wearing a bathing suit. The tourist seemed confused, and I had to explain that her attire was not proper for a restaurant, and until she covered up, she would not be served. Rather than conforming to local custom, she instead chose to spend several minutes arguing.

Is there any real harm in serving take out food to someone wearing a bathing suit. Not really. I probably couldn't even make out a decent public hygeine arguement. But the local community standards are such that that behavior is unacceptable here.


When it comes to gloves on our dive boats, we are happy to explain that wearing gloves runs quite contrary to local custom. Those who choose to continually run afoul of this custom will be refused service. Perhaps another operator won't object, but we do.

Does touching coral gently really matter? In a word, yes! I make a mental note of the location of coral pieces which I have seen touched. Return visits to the same site often show noticable coral death within a few days. Sadly there are a few spots where clear palm prints are seen dead on a coral head.

And for what little it is worth, most of our discussions about gloves with our guests come after they put them on in the water. And in my experience, I see divers wearing gloves showing a greater willingness to touch the coral.
 
That the argument against gloves comes down to "people are irresponsible, so let's create a rule" I find that disappointing.

I wear gloves on every dive-they protect my hands from cold (I get cold hands in 85 degree water), rope fibers and fishhooks on lines I may need to touch, wrecks etc. I do not touch ANYTHING, including the aforementioned lines and wrecks, unless I absolutely have to (I much prefer a free ascent etc.-only use lines in heavy current)

The concerns in this thread are valid and sensible. I am just not a fan of creating rules to try to stop bad behaviour. We need to educate against the bad behaviour.

BTW-that is why I prefer "education" to "training"-education implies thought, training implies instinctive response. While both have a place, I would always rather think through an issue. In my experience, at least, even the most drastic situation is not harmed by 30 seconds of thought before response. (Obviously, I have never been in the military!)

My $.02

Ken
 

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