Which brand of steel cylinder / tank should I buy?

[devjr]

When I started diving there were no BC's or lifejackets and certainly no one used SPG's even though there was one available in one of the old catalogs. Redundant equipment such as two regulators or ponys would have been laughed at. The decom meter was a futuristic dream. Standard equipment was a two hose aqualung, mask, fins, snorkel, suit and weightbelt. This is by way of disclosure as I have been resistant to the increasing complexity of dive equipment. Call it "old timer syndrome".

Having said that, I am now at the point of absolute certainty that dive gear has become way too complex for the average diver. I believe that manufacturers are pushing the new gear through dive organizations, mostly in the name of "safety". Secondly, a lot of this stuff is coming around by way of "extreme" dive groups such as DIR and the cave diving community in general.

Evidently, the recent trend toward "streamlining" is in recognition of something that I had been expecting. That is, that this situation is becoming absurd.

The pony bottle issue is a case in point. My feeling is that dive plans which involve overheads and decompression may require some redundant equipment such as double tanks and regulators but other than that the average reef diver would be better off with less equipment, not more.

 

[WetDane]

Took me a moment to locate that site again, here it is:

Pressed steel scuba site:
http://www.pstscuba.com/

General tank dimensions and measurements:
http://www.saudidiving.com/tanks.htm

Tank specs:
http://diverlink.com/gear/tanks.htm

Terkel

 

[Aegir]

It is apparent that you cant read Brad. This is my last post. You are confusing people, including myself by bringing other topics from other threads to this one. On the subject of Tech divers taping there regs and reg hoses for identification purposes ..this was ONE EXAMPLE( go and read it again) of how some divers identify which bottle to breath from in low visability (low visibilty is another EXAMPLE). If you are suggesting that this doesnt occur in tech diving then you need to do some more reading/research. I take it that you are from the US?..it sounds to me that you probably think the world is flat and that the world doesnt infact extend beyond your borders( this statement is specific to Brad only and does not reflect in any way my opinons on other US individuals). This how the boys do it in GB,and whether you agree to this makes no odds whatsoever.

The quantity of weight i gave in my other thread "an eqn for bcd lift" was AN EXAMPLE of an arbitrary number i came up with which doesnt reflect THE ACTUAL WEIGHT OF MY GEAR BECAUSE I HAVNT BOUGHT IT YET. "You will also have to take into concideration the valves". I already stated all this earlier, again evidence that you cant/or dont read things in there entirety. Yuor good at stating the obvious and patronisation though , ill give you that much. As Don pointed out..you may have given the correct answer to something somewhere but I DONT VALUE YOUR OPNIONION due to your attrocious attitude to other peoples opinions., i mentioned that before too. Ill mention it again just for your benefit Brad> I wont be posting or visiting this thread again.

 

[LesleyDSO]

Gee, what a hot potato! Having just read right thru this thread, it seems to be lost on a lot of people that a lot of what's on here is not-so-humble opinion only - I don't recall seeing anyone with a mortgage on what's correct and what's not. Even the proponents of DIR (Doing it Right (in their reasoned opinion)). Doesn't mean I have to agree. Probably just as well - wouldn't it be boring if we all agreed?

For my part, I hate carrying twins - I use twin 75 steels on our deepest dives (60m+), under sufferance, with two regs over the same shoulder, taped together, one hose longer than the other. Short hose - first reg. Likewise the gauges. I don't mix them up, they're quite different. I often carry a 20cf pony on the 50m+ dives, attached to a 100cf steel. It's a bail-out bottle only and lighter on my poor old back than the twins. The 100 is more than double what I need for the dive, and the pony is way more than I need to bail and do the decompression. If my buddy has a problem, there's more than enough air there for us to bail. We have been diving the wrecks off Sydney for many years. Unfortunately for us they are all 45m+, and depth and decompression are facts of life. We are comfortable, not complacent, with our system. I don't give a tinker's cuss what anyone thinks about it, it works for us. And that is my point. Diving is not just about being taught to dive. It's about being taught the risks and how to assess them, then putting that assessment into practice and taking responsibility for it. I'm not arrogant enough to claim what I do is right, it's just right for me.

 

[devjr]

Lesley, a hundred cf tank is sufficient for a 160 ft decompression dive? Jeez, are Australian cubic feet the same as ours? LOL, that's cutting it close.

 

[devjr]

Aegir, I guess nobody ever answered your question. Here goes. Faber makes a 12 liter/244 bar tank which is 7.25 inch in diameter, 24 inches length, weighs about 40 lbs and approx 13.0 lbs negative buoyancy, filled. We call this a "100 cf" HP tank. (The US DOT spec is 3180+). They also make one which is close to 14 liters and quite heavy, about 120cf capacity. They also make several "low pressure", 180 bar tanks which are of varying sizes and capacities. Buoyancies range around 7-8 lbs negative, filled. I believe there is a 13 liter version of this tank of about 85 cf capacity and 15 liter of 96 cf. These are quite large, about 8 inches diameter. These numbers may not be exact but are pretty close.

Pressed Steel Tank and Aqua make 12 liter/ 240 bar tanks which are lighter, about 35 pounds and 7-8 pounds negative. These are called 100 cf HP tanks. Overall size is similar to the Faber "100". There is a 14 liter, 120cf version also. These tanks are made of a high tensile steel which allows thinner walls and lighter weight. Normally, all come fitted with DIN valves.

The Faber tanks are galvanized and painted, and include an internal oxide coating. The neck size(US) is 3/4 straight pipe thread. The PST tanks are galvanized with sandblasted interior and 7/8 inch/16 machine thread neck. The PST, IMO, should never be overfilled. The Faber hp tank is stronger and thicker, more rust resistant with a burst pressure north of 7500 psi. The tradeoff is weight.

For cold water, salt water diving, my preference is the Faber/244 bar/100cf/12 liter. The negative buoyancy makes for good balance underwater and fewer lead weights. My preference for tropical waters and fresh water is the PST or Aqua/100cf. I've been told that our fresh water divers often prefer the LP Faber(OMS) tanks with which I have little experience. I've noticed that these tanks are also preferred by California "party boat" divers where high pressure fills are not available.

If you feel you need a "pony", let me suggest an aluminum or "aluminium" tank(G) with your preference of size.

 

[LesleyDSO]

No it's not, Devjr. I use a 12l Faber which fills to 232 bar (12.1 x 232 / 28.3 = 99.19cuft). I rarely use more than 110bar on that dive, my buddy (6'3", 95kg) uses about 160, total dive time about 35mins. If we do a couple of extra minutes, we obviously use a tad more, deco is a little longer. As I said, we are comfortable, not complacent. We don't need LOL, thanks.

 

[Frog]

Has anyone on the board heard of Tor'Tec scuba tanks before. Basically i just want to know if they are any good. I think they are only a european/UK brand which dont export to the US. Although i may be wrong. Cheers

PS while im on the subject- does anyone know waht the "DOT 3AA / TC3AAM" standard is? I was going to go for a FAber but i want one that is negatively buoyant, this list from faber just confuses me because i dont know what standards are accebtable in the UK.
http://www.divefaber.com/list/print/scuba_lpr_full.asp?da=14.5&a=22

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by Frog
PS while im on the subject- does anyone know waht the "DOT 3AA / TC3AAM" standard is? I was going to go for a FAber but i want one that is negatively buoyant, this list from faber just confuses me because i dont know what standards are accebtable in the UK.

Frog,

In the UK the only standards accepted are BS5045 (part 1 - steel tanks, part 2 aluminium) and the new european standard (down on the list as european regulations).

Any tank marked DoT is for the US only.

As I said in another post, you should have been taught this in your OW course - all countries have their own laws and certification requirements - hence TorTec not exporting to the US. I have no personal experience with them so I cant recommend - or reccomend you avoid them.

If you try and buy a tank of the wrong spec, either Faber won't import it for you, or the place you order it through won't even order it.

Jon T

 

[devjr]

Don't know beans about TorTec but buoyancy specs for any tank are readily available over here(US). Assume it's the same in UK. The US Dept of Transportation spec "3AA" means generally that the tank is constructed of chrome molybdenum steel. This has been the type of steel preferred for SCUBA tanks, as opposed to "3A", for example, which is a cheaper carbon steel. A further designation such as "E" 9791 which is found on some US tanks, is an exceptional use permit for a special alloy. Interestly, these numbers can give a clue as to buoyancy. PST's special high tensile steel results in a thinner, lighter tank.