Which brand of steel cylinder / tank should I buy?

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Hi Aegir,

One other piece of advice that has not been mentioned yet on this thread:

When buying steel tanks, you should try to get galvanized tanks. Certain models (like the OMS LP 98 I have made biy Faber) are simply painted and are more subject to nicks/exterior rust than a galvanized tank. I believe that most tanks made by Pressed Steel are galvanized.

 
'Idiocy'??? Why are you taking this thread personally? If pony tanks don't make sense for you, why not leave it at that?

Sharing opinions on a board like this would seem to be more productive without any attitude.


Ponies forever!! OOA Never!!
 
Thanking you kindly LD :)

Atomox you are probably right...but i am trying to get other peoples opionions. I didnt value your opinion because you started taking things personally and got a little defensive. I didnt listen to you fully..because you annoy with your attitude and you clearly have an inflexible way of thinking. Saying all that, I appreciate your input and effort.

(posted by Atomox) "If you truly know what you are talking about then how much lift does the kit require in the water?" I am dumb..what else can i say. I asked the question without much thought of how to workout how much lift i might need. When i come home from work i am usually very stressed and cant think about the most simplest of things, hence my asking Q's on the board (albeit a silly question in whoevers opinion)

I havnt got a clue because i dont know how much it weigh's ,i havnt got it yet.

why do i need 40Lbs of lift? when i didnt mention how heavy my actual gear was. Anyway, Atomox, that is a different discussion to the one that should be going on here, about brands of steel tanks. Its starting to look as if your just picking out the negatives so you can flame every post in site for no good reason.(example page 2 of this thread and the fact that i may kill someone with my poor skills) Give it a rest please its getting boring.

 
Large Diver, playing devils advocat...
Here are some reasons people often state when saying pony tanks could promote bad diving practices:
1) If you monitor your gauges properly, why would you need one.
2) If you hadn't abandoned what you were taught in OW you wouldn't need a pony.
3) The best possible alternative air, spare air, whaterver you want to call it is your buddy. If he/she isn't around then you made a bad equipment choice.
4) They promote a reduction in learned skills.
5) They make you buddy independant.

Btw, all steel tanks manufactured today are galvanized, not painted. OMS tanks are sprayed on galv. while PST and Faber are hot dipped. Spray on galv. will chip off and promote the rusting of the tank. Hot dip will not.

These are my answers and opinions, flame protection is off, so get with it.

ID
 
Since Don wants to be flamed, I'll give it a try. You farm pond, scum sucking, stock tank diving ...... :). Did you ever retrieve your gear from the frozen stock tank?

Seriously, lets look at your response, Don.

"1) If you monitor your gauges properly, why do you need a pony."

That one is simple. Redundancy. While it definately isn't as good a choice as doubles, it does provide a measure of redundancy. It's also more convinent and can be passed off to your buddy if rigged accordingly. You take it in case of the unexpected, not as a means for more air to use.

"2) If you hadn't abandoned what you were taught in OW you wouldn't need a pony."

Also simple. Sh*t happens. You can easily get caught up in something and run low on air, be it a physical entanglement or a mental one. Your primary air source could also fail and the pony would provide you with enough air to get you back to the surface in most recreational diving situations.

"3) The best possible alternative air, spare air, whaterver you want to call it is your buddy. If he/she isn't around then you made a bad equipment choice."

That's true, but buddies aren't always reliable. We've all dove with buddies that we'd rather not have after the fact. We've all been on boats and been buddied with a complete stranger whom we know absolutely nothing about. True, it may be a bad choice to do so, but it's a fact of life if you're traveling alone and want to dive. It's nice to have the means to help yourself if need be.

"4) They promote a reduction in learned skills."

Not sure I grasp that one unless your refering to buddy skills. In that sense, I guess they do. They also promote a different mindset. Example being a diver that normally would not drain his/her tank to unsafe limits may do so if they get accustomed to the pony and rely on it for bale out. But that's bad judgement on the individual divers part. The diver should use a pony for emergencies only. That's what they are for.

"5) They make you buddy independant."

No argument on that one. That's very true. I doubt seriously that any diver with a pony would first look to his buddy in an OOA. Why would he when he has a pony? Isn't that the very reason for carrying one, to be dependant on yourself?


I think ponies have their place in diving. They may not always be the best choice, but they do have benefits. Just as there are situations where they are inappropiate, there are also situations where there a viable option.

BTW, what happened to all the humor here lately?

 
1&2) That's what your buddy is for.
3) Then it's up to you on the boat to set the rules when you are assigned an unfamiliar buddy. Tell them how the cow ate the cabbage. It's really that simple.
4) We agree
5) That's the whole purpose of buddy diving besides the perks, they are secondary. You don't have to carry all that unnecessary gear around.


I think it would be safe to say that non DIR divers look at DIR as radicals when they say just the opposite is true.

Just don't look at all the scuba diving deaths and tell anyone how many were DIR... If you ask those DIR, The answer is none. Get the picture?

ID

Humor....haven't found anything humorous here in a while.
 
Originally posted by Iguana Don

Humor....haven't found anything humorous here in a while.


Well, dangit, lets get it back. I miss your bickering, hehe. I'm sure will bicker with you on this issue.

DIR?....Don't get me started on DIR. I'm not DIR and never will be for one reason. I dive the way that makes me comfortable and the way that I feel best suits the conditions that I dive in. If that happens to conform to DIR's standards, then so be it. But if it doesn't, then that's ok too. But that's another topic.

I'm not against buddy diving, not at all. But I'm also not overly buddy dependant. I try to be as self-dependant as possible. Why not take a little extra pre-caution if you so choose?
 
OK Mr. Iguana, you've made some good points....and I agree with your overall premise that pony-reliance COULD lead to bad habits. That being said, I have to counter with a few comments.

One of the comments I made in my discussion with Atomox is that each diver is in a unique situation -- different abilities, different experience level, different "typical" dive conditions/profile. As a result, equipment that works for one may not work for another. I offer the comments below with my own diving experience level/skill/typical profile in mind:

One of your points is that you don't need a pony with proper gas management: I monitor my gas very carefully when I dive. In fact, when I went diving at the giant aquarium at Epcot back in February, my wife (watching from the other side of the glass) was laughing at how often I checked my pressure gauge even when diving in a 27 foot deep "pool". My goal is always to surface with a substantial reserve. I also stay in close promximity to my buddy at all times and never plan to solo dive. So why do I need a pony -- it's just another insurance policy. As I mentioned to Atomox, I don't want to start diving doubles, but I do like to dive as deep as 100FSW. Some charter boats here in New England even REQUIRE ponies or doubles for some of these deeper dives. Something could go wrong -- what if my buddy breathes heavy on a given dive and doesn't have much of a reserve towards the end of a dive and then I have an air supply issue? And what if, as you say, I am on a boat with a buddy I know nothing about......not optimal, I know, but it has happened to me before and I'm sure it will happen again.

I disagree with your comments about ponies causing a reduction in learned skills -- if I treat it as an emergency supply only, no problem.

My bottom line is simlar to Warhammer's -- they do have a place in diving. I don't plan on carryng a pony often, but for deeper dives, it provides me with one additional risk management tool.


 
Aegir,

The same can be said of you. You ask a question and when the answer is not to your liking you start to bicker and bring up outside threads and issues.

40lbs of lift (minimum). The answer is all there in the posts regarding this. And yes you did mention the weight of your gear. (as I said before you need to pay attention to what you write) But, again:

12 kg of belt weight (26.4 lbs)(this is from your post)
8 lb of tank weight (this is from your post)
5-6 lb of SS backplate (this is from your post)
1-2 lb of STA (this is from your post)

You will also need to take into consideration the valves;
the pony and any other christmas tree ornaments;

Brad
 
Large

ID covered it.

I also have the same points in early posts in this thread.

Now,
A newly married husband came home from the office to find his young wife in floods of tears. "What could have happened? Who died?" he thinks to himself.

"Darling, whatever is the matter?" he asks his sobbing bride.

"Sweetheart," she cries, "the most terrible thing happened! I cooked my very first beef bourguignon for you, and I got it out the oven to season it, and the phone rang. When I came back from answering the phone," she sobbed again, "I found that the cat had eaten it!"

"Don't worry, darling," said her husband. "Don't cry. I'll get you a new cat in the morning..."
 
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