Training Scuba Ranch Incident Report

[kammel78]

If that's the case, I'd be more than willing to loan my dock to whatever group needs it (KCSO?) to retrieve the data.

All they needed is to take pictures of the logs on the computer(s), and honestly, that should be a requirement even if you can transfer the data just in case someone accidentally deletes the logs when they're trying to download.

 

[bheath]

All they needed is to take pictures of the logs on the computer(s), and honestly, that should be a requirement even if you can transfer the data just in case someone accidentally deletes the logs when they're trying to download.

On the Cressi Leonardo, that's only going to tell max depth. If you want to see what the actual dive profile was, you have to offload it with the dock interface, which is why I was offering to loan mine to whoever needed it to get the logs, because I know it can be difficult to find and mine is sitting here doing nothing.

 

[boulderjohn]

For an instructor, that goes away as providing details to liability provider and parent training org is required.

The greatest penalty that a die agency can impose is expulsion from the agency. I am not sure what the rules are for their release of internal investigations to others--ask @Subfiend. IIRC, there was a bit of an issue with PADI supposedly accidently releasing some of its internal investigation into the affair in Utah.

For an instructor who is also law enforcement and on the dive team (which should have their own strict accident documentation training), it would be reasonable to view as intentional and therefore criminal.

That would only matter if the people charged with doing an investigation were actually interested in doing an investigation.

 

[boulderjohn]

IMHO, the computer of most interest is the DMs. The DM is tasked with watching over the rest of the students while the instructor works with individual students. If the victim's computer showed that she dropped down early in the instruction, it is very possible for the instructor to be unaware of it as he worked with other students, possibly with his back to the victim. The DM is the one who is supposed to spot such things and act, so if his computer showed he did nothing at the time that the victim descended below the platform, that would be a serious issue. I'm guessing that is why that computer supposedly accidently dropped to the bottom of a 90 foot lake. Note that I said "supposedly."

 

[bheath]

IMHO, the computer of most interest is the DMs. The DM is tasked with watching over the rest of the students while the instructor works with individual students. If the victim's computer showed that she dropped down early in the instruction, it is very possible for the instructor to be unaware of it as he worked with other students, possibly with his back to the victim. The DM is the one who is supposed to spot such things and act, so if his computer showed he did nothing at the time that the victim descended below the platform, that would be a serious issue. I'm guessing that is why that computer supposedly accidently dropped to the bottom of a 90 foot lake. Note that I said "supposedly."

Maybe it was mentioned elsewhere and I missed it, but when the group was split into 2 sets of 4, was she with the Instructor, or with the DM?

 

[johndiver999]

What's interesting is that, for a civilian, failure to preserve evidence could be somewhat rationalized.

For an instructor, that goes away as providing details to liability provider and parent training org is required.

For an instructor who is also law enforcement and on the dive team (which should have their own strict accident documentation training), it would be reasonable to view as intentional and therefore criminal.


You are correct. Sorry, my wording was confusing and I meant more of a general public defense of whatever reputation he may still have to show that the civil suit was frivolous. It's the argument that Hegseth made during confirmation. "Hey I was cleared of any wrongdoing and I only settled to make it easier on my family". Publicly equating "declining to prosecute" with "cleared of wrongdoing".

Then he transfers to his local PD or the next county over and becomes a PADI instructor.

If it was a NAUI training activity, then I assume that NAUI would have pursued the relevant dive report and computer info. I believe that PADI professionals used to be (and I assume continue to be) required to provide an accident report after a serious incident in order to retain their active teaching status.

Is there any transparency from the training agency with respect to confirmation that a report was filed and if associated dive profiles were included? I doubt they would voluntarily release the actual information, but it would be interesting to know if NAUI is, or is not, performing the most basic due diligence in associated with this fatality. Has NAUI kept the instructor under a "current" or active certification? Is the instructor's "status" associated with the submittal of an accident report for NAUI after a training fatality?

Seems like most of these questions should be addressed by a SOP of the training agency.

 

[kammel78]

On the Cressi Leonardo, that's only going to tell max depth. If you want to see what the actual dive profile was, you have to offload it with the dock interface, which is why I was offering to loan mine to whoever needed it to get the logs, because I know it can be difficult to find and mine is sitting here doing nothing.

Start time for Dylan vs start time and end time for Armstrong and Roussel.

Maybe it was mentioned elsewhere and I missed it, but when the group was split into 2 sets of 4, was she with the Instructor, or with the DM?

There is question whether they actually were split. Reports are they went down as one big group, not on a line.

 

[boulderjohn]

Maybe it was mentioned elsewhere and I missed it, but when the group was split into 2 sets of 4, was she with the Instructor, or with the DM?

I missed where they were split. What would be the point of that, since a DM cannot perform the duties of an instructor on a certification dive?

 

[stretchthepenn]

Nonsense? What is sensical about having a child become lost, drowned and abandoned by your fellow "professional", certified instructor?

My point was.. "I would have". Absolutely, I would not let my child do a dive like that without my immediate attention.

I don't have kids, so I can't relate on the same basis you can. But speaking as a person who taught swim lessons for nearly 20 years, I have to disagree.

Having parents close by while teaching children to swim is a terrible, terrible idea. They interfere, plain and simple.

 

[DOBY]

Maybe it was mentioned elsewhere and I missed it, but when the group was split into 2 sets of 4, was she with the Instructor, or with the DM?

A Dive Master primarily assists an instructor and can not (or should not) be in direct control of a student(s). There’s a bigger issue if the class was split into two groups of 4 as there would have to had been two instructors to split the group into two without violating standards.

The group should have been split into two separate groups of 4 and in the water with both the instructor & DM at different times. Not all eight at the same time.

I tought in cold and sometimes low vis Ohio quarries. We only tough 4 students at time with both an instructor and dive master. We added an extra instructor if a child was one of the student to watch the child student.