Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde dive guides

[Blackcrusader]

Using “Body language like a traffic cop” seems appropriate to me for divers who aren’t following the guide or staying with their buddy.

IT is not. I do a lot of dive trips with regular dive buddies. I've had guides try to separate us and put us with other divers. We simply refuse. Also guides are there to guide. I've done wrecks with guides and they know we are experienced divers and if we are ahead and deeper no guide has ever admonished me for that.

We also make sure if other divers are lower on gas we will let the guide take them to the surface but we make stay nearby but continue diving. Here is a video of me on a dive. Last in the group my dive buddy taking the video.

10m? Not

 

[mrtechbench]

I haven't timed how fast I can swim for a long time. Normal swimming fully geared up with doubles and maybe Deco/stages I usually plan on 50 ft/min (15m/min.). If they don't know you have a problem and keep going 10m away in certain emergencies probably seems really far. if they're stopped and you're casually swimming that's about 40 seconds away from your buddy. If they're in front of you still swimming at a normal pace, and you swim twice as fast, that's still 40 seconds away. In a dark environment where you can signal with lights, at least you should be able to get their attention. In a well lit area it could be difficult to get them to notice.

 

[Lorenzoid]

You referred to policing three times in your post. Do you have a problem with authority figures? In some cases, it is clear that a dive guide is hired as a guide only, but I think it's more common for a dive guide to serve as a group leader who believes they bear some responsibility for the safety of their divers. I don't think it's wrong for a dive leader, who may see all kinds of unsafe behavior that could lead to a diver in their charge getting injured, to sort of "police" their divers. But I also don't think they should resort to theatrics. I would prefer them to convey their requests to me calmly and politely. They should also keep in mind a certain length to the "leash" they keep their divers on; in other words, cut their divers some amount of slack before attempting corrective action. I would imagine that dive guides who routinely see things that concern them might start losing patience and jump the gun (sorry--couldn't resist another police reference). Maybe your guide had a rough time the previous week with bad divers.

 

[Wants2divemore]

I'd never be more than a couple of minutes from a buddy.

I think 2-3 minutes away from your buddy is too far. If one of you was out of air, that's a long time to hold your breath while swimming quickly to meet up.

 

[kdlv]

Never experienced this type of attitude in Egypt. I suspect there's more to the story.

Typically staying at a slight distance from my buddy (10m) is totally fine in ideal conditions: i.e. if one of us is taking a photo of something. We have signaling devices and cover ourselves up and the guides take a note of this after the first dive. However we shouldn't delay rest of the group. This is clearly articulated in advance at the briefing and noone ever had a problem with that. Challenging conditions is a totally different story: we stay close together at 2-3 meters.

Going in front of the guide is totally a problem. It can mislead other divers. I would be totally pissed if I were the dive guide.

If someone is low on air and the guide needs to take them to the surface, this is a drill that has to be clarified in advance. If the guide is experienced, they would state something like: "in low air scenario, if we are towards the end of the planned dive, everyone goes up with us".

Especially in Egypt, the agreement I always had with guides is that (unless it is a complicated situation), if the guide needs to take someone to the surface, the rest of us can relax and enjoy some more time under the boat staying with our buddies and surface in pairs with each of us having at least 50bar, or else we skip next dive (yes, the guide always checked). And the guide also always gave us clear indication whether to stay or surface. Yes, in some cases the boat had to wait for us for ~30 minutes, but that was the agreement and it was respected.

These folks are experienced and they know the spots. So now, come on... tell us the rest of the story

 

[Tassie_Rohan]

Were these drift dives in current, with a live boat following the divers?

If so then keeping the dive group together, and having all members of the group surface at the same time, is rather important.

 

[Maolli]

Never experienced this type of attitude in Egypt. I suspect there's more to the story.

Typically staying at a slight distance from my buddy (10m) is totally fine in ideal conditions: i.e. if one of us is taking a photo of something. We have signaling devices and cover ourselves up and the guides take a note of this after the first dive. However we shouldn't delay rest of the group. This is clearly articulated in advance at the briefing and noone ever had a problem with that. Challenging conditions is a totally different story: we stay close together at 2-3 meters.

Going in front of the guide is totally a problem. It can mislead other divers. I would be totally pissed if I were the dive guide.

If someone is low on air and the guide needs to take them to the surface, this is a drill that has to be clarified in advance. If the guide is experienced, they would state something like: "in low air scenario, if we are towards the end of the planned dive, everyone goes up with us".

Especially in Egypt, the agreement I always had with guides is that (unless it is a complicated situation), if the guide needs to take someone to the surface, the rest of us can relax and enjoy some more time under the boat staying with our buddies and surface in pairs with each of us having at least 50bar, or else we skip next dive (yes, the guide always checked). And the guide also always gave us clear indication whether to stay or surface. Yes, in some cases the boat had to wait for us for ~30 minutes, but that was the agreement and it was respected.

These folks are experienced and they know the spots. So now, come on... tell us the rest of the story

The low diver situation was in Cozumel.

 

[Maolli]

Were these drift dives in current, with a live boat following the divers?

Yes

 

[Maolli]

You referred to policing three times in your post. Do you have a problem with authority figures?

Only when they tell me what to do and are bossy and arrogant about it, especially when I don't agree.

 

[Tassie_Rohan]

Yes

In that case I would say the actions of the DM were justified.

There are plenty of divers who have gone missing on such drift dives - and I suspect a common feature of such accidents is that the divers involved 'did not agree' with the boat rules, and found the staff enforcing such rules (stay together and surface as a group) to be 'bossy and arrogant'.

No matter how experienced the diver - if it's their boat it's their rules.

Cheers
Rohan