How soon is too soon for a Rescue Diver course?

[lizardland]

A fun part of my course was demonstrating to my instructor that a BP/W is not an impediment. Due to external factors, I had minimal time to take my course. It was a private course with my son acting as the "victim". For the pool portion, the instructor insisted my son be in a conventional BCD because he thought it would make it go faster. But for the OW dives, I wanted my son to be in his own BP/W with webbing harness and a crotch strap which is also what I dive. The instructor reluctantly agreed because I had been able to move through the skills faster than average. Side note, if you've been through lifeguard training, a lot of the rescue skills and definitely the mindset come quite easily.

The OW portion went well. It turns out that it takes no more time to remove a properly adjusted BP/W, i.e. one without overly tight shoulder straps, than a conventional wing with its adjusters and chest strap.

I totally agree with BP&W, it shouldn't really be an impediment. Like I said, I've played the body on hundreds of courses and I used a range of equipment during the course, including OPH's, to see how people handled it. The instructor wasn't always the happiest about it but that was the price of having an assistant for the weekend and eventually he saw the value of it.

I would go over my equipment during the buddy check as I would on a normal dive. The thing that amazed me is that most people don't listen. If they dived a standard BCD they would default to hunting for quick releases and during the debrief afterwards it was clear they had not paid attention. A good chunk of people would either remember what I said or realise their mistake and sort it out. But a good chunk didn't. It always made me happy when someone asked "can I cut the strap?" but they were few and far between. The absolute worst was when I used a Dive Rite Deluxe harness. Still a webbing harness but it had a single quick release in the left shoulder and solid strap on the right. Near enough 100% of the time the rescuer would latch on to the quick release straight away and then burn time trying to figure out where the QR was on the other shoulder. It generally took longer than figuring out a one-piece harness. It was like a dog watching a magic trick, they just could not get their heads round that QR's might not come in pairs.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I tell my rescue students “BP/Ws are easier to remove as they have less plastic and padding to get in the way of this!” <wave my Z knife menacingly at the nearest student’s BP/W straps>

Leads to a discussion on we won’t be damaging any equipment (or students) in the course but in real life might cut off gear, dry suits etc.

The last scenario in my rescue class when I taught was the missing diver. I would be the missing diver and need to be brought to the surface and removed from the water. Either at a dock or shore. For this I would string a BPW with sacrificial webbing and make sure it was too tight to easily slip off. Students were required to cut me out of the harness using EZ Cut type devices or shears. No knives!
It was like 12 bucks worth of webbing for me to replace.
But the students got priceless knowledge and experience with using the tools I recommended for the class. And it gave them the mindset that, in an actual emergency, keeping a strap intact was not a priority at all. Get the gear off and get them out of the water.

 

[Subcooled]

Theoretically one can get OW and AOW finished with nine dives and then go right to Rescue Diver. Not sure if this is the best idea, but the agencies will allow it.

I haven't done Rescue yet, but I'm curious from those who have done it what level of diving experience would be appropriate.

You need to be able to keep a stable depth, stay somewhat stationary, turn efficiently and to be generally in good control of your position under water. Once you master that, and start to perceive what happens around you, only then can you start to rescue someone. It's not about the number of dives. Instead, control of depth, heading, direction & speed and awareness mean a lot.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You need to be able to keep a stable depth, stay somewhat stationary, turn efficiently and to be generally in good control of your position under water. Once you master that, and start to perceive what happens around you, only then can you start to rescue someone. It's not about the number of dives. Instead, control of depth, heading, direction & speed and awareness mean a lot.

Why? Many accidents could be prevented on the surface before anyone even gets in the water. None of those skills are required to do that. There are OW classes that have rescue skills as part of the basic OW class. They used to be part of every OW class until the training model got screwed up and profit was put before skills and education. I've had 12 yr olds bring up adults twice and nearly 3 times their size, get them on the surface, and towed to the side.
Those things you noted at the end are great skills for navigation. Which, in reality, will not be needed for a missing diver. The dive buddy should be able to get a person to the surface and help them establish positive buoyancy. If they can't, they really should not even have a certification.
What one needs to have to effect a rescue is proper basic OW training.
It sounds more like you are talking about searching for a missing diver. That's usually not a rescue. It's a recovery and should only be done by qualified dive pros. Not by someone with a piece of plastic.
Due to the crap nature of one and two weekend OW classes, a rescue course that informs someone how to spot stress, anxiety, equipment issues, poor decision making, and first aid/CPR should be one of the first courses after OW.
Situational awareness doesn't require good buoyancy, effective turning techniques, or the ability to read a compass.
The agencies throw that in to give the illusion that a recreationally trained "rescue diver" is something they are not.

 

[Subcooled]

The reason for this recommendation is that recovering an unconscious person from the bottom requires basic abilty to control oneself. Rescuing an unconscious diver was part of the PADI RD course I did a long time ago.

Very basic dive skill is also required before anyone can perceive the surroundings and operate efficiently. Focus should be on learning skills, not coping with the underwater environment. Many new open water divers struggle to control their drysuits, for example, and are unable to do much more. My assumption here, of course, is that the OW course is done wearing a drysuit which makes diving a bit challenging at first.

If you read my text carefully, you'll see that the requirements are not that steep. Stable depth. Somewhat stationary. Turn. Keep heading. Some people achieve these after five dives. Others require 30. Gear and environment also play a role.

Basic safety knowledge should belong to the first diving course of course. We agree on that.

"Due to the crap nature of one and two weekend OW classes"
- OK, I get your point.

Perhaps one should do rescue diver twice: immediately and once mastering swimming under water?

 

[Brett Hatch]

The reason for this recommendation is that recovering an unconscious person from the bottom requires a basic abilty to control oneself. Very basic dive skill is also required before anyone can perceive the surroundings and operate efficiently. Focus should be on learning skills, not coping with the underwater environtment. If you read my text carefully, you'll see that the requirements are not that steep. Basic safety knowledge should belong to the first diving course of course.

You're pretty much right about everything you said here. But, I think Jim's point is that if you see a person unconscious on the bottom, chances are that they are dead, and they not coming back, no matter what you do. Of course we should all do our best to try an help that person... but it is not the most likely scenario that the rescue course covers, nor is it likely that intervention can help them

Most of the time in my rescue course was spent on situations significantly less dire than an unconscious diver on the bottom, but still potentially very bad: panicked diver underwater, panicked diver on the surface, somebody with a gear problem, somebody entangled, just a confused newbie, etc etc. Better awareness of what problems we can run into, what those problems look like, and what to do about them is something that can be learned, and is useful to learn, while somebody is still a new diver themselves

Still, I stand by my original post in this thread. For most divers, most of the time, they will get the most benefit out of this course once they already have their ducks in a row. That will be different for every person, for me I took the course at 150 dives or so and thought that was OK. 50 dives or 250 dives would've been OK too, or heck, 10 dives in I still would have learned something

 

[Subcooled]

I guess we all agree on the importance of a rescue diver course (or stress & rescue or whatever it might be called by agency X) as soon as the diver is capable of doing one in a meaningful manner. How soon this course should be taken is a more difficult question as it depends on the individual and also on the OW course they did.