Divemasters Should Ask 'Is Your Oxygen ON?'

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So if the O2 is not on, you'll notice PP02 decreasing while you're waiting to jump or on the bottom. That's it. Depending upon your dil it might happen sooner or later. If you don't religiously watch your PP02, you shouldn't be diving CC. Period.

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so why cant you apply this same religous vigour argument to you're predive check
 
Query almost any experienced open-circuit divemaster working at the dive platform "what is the last thing you do as you put the diver in the water?" and the answer will probably be "I check their tank valve is open." Yet, most boat crew are unfamiliar with closed-circuit diving and, knowing this, most rebreather divers are reluctant to allow others to handle their equipment. Thus vital cross-check challenges are often omitted, perhaps enabling the rebreather diver to enter the water with their oxygen or electronics off. If so, the rebreather loop will become dangerously hypoxic, typically during or a short time after the descent. Mark, our Dive Gear Express staff rebreather instructor who is also an experienced rebreather dive accident forensic investigator, has observed this finding surprisingly often in rebreather dive accidents.

After the boat safety briefing, we suggest approaching unfamiliar open-circuit divemasters you encounter to tell them about a safety cross-check alternative for closed-circuit divers. As the divemaster queues up the diver at the platform just prior to putting them in the water, in the case of rebreather divers ask "Is your oxygen on?" rather than touching any valves. The diver should glance at their handset and rock their O2 valve knob to double check then reply with an OK hand signal. (If circumstances permit, Mark also likes to take the loop out for a moment and say "YES and thank you for asking!") The feedback from many long time divemasters on the boats where we dive is this simple reminder immediately before the rebreather diver enters the water has averted several potential dive accidents.

Help promote dive safety, and perhaps save a life, by telling the working divemasters on the boats you dive from about the benefits of asking every rebreather diver immediately before they enter the water...

Is your O2
One more suggestion... to reinforce the divemaster's new behavior, if they remember to ask you the question then give them an extra generous gratuity and tell them why.

Yesterday I wrote and deleted a slightly anti response and instead attempted to be slightly positive by pointing out that by adding more “safety” you can just make systems more complicated and actually cause more problems than you solve.

This morning I think I have to say what I think. This is an awful idea based on a set of preconceptions about what people want when diving that I think are wrong. It wants to extend a frankly piss poor system to people who just don’t want it. The bit that I noticed at a second read was about tips

One more suggestion... to reinforce the divemaster's new behavior, if they remember to ask you the question then give them an extra generous gratuity and tell them why.

I would rather the Divemasters stayed at home. I just don’t want them there at all. I really really think that anyone who wants “master” in a title needs a good talking to. The people we are discussing here are clearly no sort of master.

Unfortunately the scuba business operates on a basis of pretending that the customers know what they are doing and kind of getting away with it with practices such as controlling the profile and timing of the dives, having baby sitters in the water and this kind of last ditch check. And you want me to pay extra for this stupidity? FFS.

What I do appreciate on a boat is crew who are helpful. That crew might be there because they are the cook or the skipper or just to be a helping hand. I appreciate crew that manages the timing of things with plenty to spare, not trying to get in and out quick with short SI so two sets of punters can be processed in a day.

A decent, professional crew results in calm and controlled time ahead of the dive and gives everyone a good chance to do their thing. Buddies get to check each other, like they are supposed to.

This proposal attempts to extend the way many resorts run things to circumstances where such an approach is absolutely terrible.
 
What I do appreciate on a boat is crew who are helpful.
This ^^^

Helpfulness, for a technical diver (complex kit, multiple cylinders) means an assistant who is attentive and quick to help but also leaves space for you to complete your checks in peace. For example: attaching stage cylinders, passing kit, picking up dropped stuff (boat rolls and gloves/mask falls off the bench), sealing gloves on (Kubis), noticing when a drysuit hose isn’t attached, untying your twinset/rebreather (d'Oh), helping you waddle over to the jump (boat being flung around). Or just removing stages and fins on your return — and passing cups of tea.
 
Mate this, whatever your interpretation

IS JUST BIZARRO

The point he makes is that adding complexity to systems in the hope of making them safer often results in catastrophic failure.

Here the proposal is an extra layer of “safety” implemented by having a person with no idea about a system ask one question about if of a person who ought to be completely knowledgeable about it. This is a bit less helpful than asking Pete if he has switched it off and on again when SB is playing up.
 
Yesterday I wrote and deleted a slightly anti response and instead attempted to be slightly positive by pointing out that by adding more “safety” you can just make systems more complicated and actually cause more problems than you solve.

This morning I think I have to say what I think. This is an awful idea based on a set of preconceptions about what people want when diving that I think are wrong. It wants to extend a frankly piss poor system to people who just don’t want it. The bit that I noticed at a second read was about tips

One more suggestion... to reinforce the divemaster's new behavior, if they remember to ask you the question then give them an extra generous gratuity and tell them why.

I would rather the Divemasters stayed at home. I just don’t want them there at all. I really really think that anyone who wants “master” in a title needs a good talking to. The people we are discussing here are clearly no sort of master.

Unfortunately the scuba business operates on a basis of pretending that the customers know what they are doing and kind of getting away with it with practices such as controlling the profile and timing of the dives, having baby sitters in the water and this kind of last ditch check. And you want me to pay extra for this stupidity? FFS.

What I do appreciate on a boat is crew who are helpful. That crew might be there because they are the cook or the skipper or just to be a helping hand. I appreciate crew that manages the timing of things with plenty to spare, not trying to get in and out quick with short SI so two sets of punters can be processed in a day.

A decent, professional crew results in calm and controlled time ahead of the dive and gives everyone a good chance to do their thing. Buddies get to check each other, like they are supposed to.

This proposal attempts to extend the way many resorts run things to circumstances where such an approach is absolutely terrible.
I think your being too cynical and its clouding what in fact could be a useful tool - you dont want a DM who probably doesnt know anything about rebreathers monitoring you? what if they were a fellow rebreather diver ? Theres no suggestion of an overly complex checklist -its very basic and its unobtrusive - the video mentioned earlier is a good example and its hardly an extension of a resort style approach to diver safety. - i detest the tipping culture prevalent in the US so am with u on that.
 
Time to pick this apart.

After the boat safety briefing, we suggest approaching unfamiliar open-circuit divemasters you encounter to tell them about a safety cross-check alternative for closed-circuit divers.

Virtually anyone can do a Discover Scuba Diving session with a few minutes of training demonstrates that open circuit is incredibly simple to use safely. CCR diving is so fundamentally different from open circuit diving that it's effectively a "legal" requirement to take a 5 day training course in recreational CCR diving that has course standards well above and beyond that of AOW + Nitrox. There's 5 days of skills taught which are CCR only. Post course you must practice and keep those skills up.

In other words basic OC diving is simple whereas 'basic' CCR is most definitely not.

The problem with DiveMasters is most are not masters at all. They have very limited training and experience for the specific task of shepherding novice OC divers. To be fair, there's a small percentage of DMs who actually go beyond the limited PADI et al fold. But the vast majority of DMs have absolutely no knowledge of rebreathers nor technical diving.

Whilst your point is valid: it is obviously a "good thing" to have that final safety check, the problem is what "one" check just before you jump would be useful -- given that CCRs have so many novel ways of killing you.

Asking "is your oxygen tank on" superficially seems useful but is really just an (important / vital) OC check for novices. In CCR it just isn't that simple. Whilst people have been killed as their oxygen cylinder was turned off, many many more have been killed because they failed to monitor their PPO2 and ignored alarms flashing in their face -- the Head Up Display and/or Nerd.

Short of sitting the DiveMaster down and teaching them the pre-dive process and give them a laminated checklist, it would far better if we got them to ask a sensible question that gets to the bottom of the problem...



"Inflate your wing and tell me your PPO2"

The answer will be a hiss in the wing and demonstrating a PPO2 something above 0.7. Ideally the diver should point to their dive controller to show the (normally 3) cell readings within a gnats todger of each other.

That simple question means that the diver's demonstrated that:
  • The oxygen is turned on and is being held above the surface setpoint (below which the solenoid, if fitted, injects)
  • The diluent is turned on so they won't sink and can breathe on the way down
  • The electronics are turned on and working; the cells are more or less the same (they'd show flashing red or amber in some controllers if wrong)
  • The diver is awake and thinking
  • The diver can can see their controller (not turned over on the wrist, tucked into some waistband, etc.)
  • That the pre-dive checks have probably been done
 
Time to pick this apart.



Virtually anyone can do a Discover Scuba Diving session with a few minutes of training demonstrates that open circuit is incredibly simple to use safely. CCR diving is so fundamentally different from open circuit diving that it's effectively a "legal" requirement to take a 5 day training course in recreational CCR diving that has course standards well above and beyond that of AOW + Nitrox. There's 5 days of skills taught which are CCR only. Post course you must practice and keep those skills up.

In other words basic OC diving is simple whereas 'basic' CCR is most definitely not.

The problem with DiveMasters is most are not masters at all. They have very limited training and experience for the specific task of shepherding novice OC divers. To be fair, there's a small percentage of DMs who actually go beyond the limited PADI et al fold. But the vast majority of DMs have absolutely no knowledge of rebreathers nor technical diving.

Whilst your point is valid: it is obviously a "good thing" to have that final safety check, the problem is what "one" check just before you jump would be useful -- given that CCRs have so many novel ways of killing you.

Asking "is your oxygen tank on" superficially seems useful but is really just an (important / vital) OC check for novices. In CCR it just isn't that simple. Whilst people have been killed as their oxygen cylinder was turned off, many many more have been killed because they failed to monitor their PPO2 and ignored alarms flashing in their face -- the Head Up Display and/or Nerd.

Short of sitting the DiveMaster down and teaching them the pre-dive process and give them a laminated checklist, it would far better if we got them to ask a sensible question that gets to the bottom of the problem...



"Inflate your wing and tell me your PPO2"

The answer will be a hiss and demonstrating a PPO2 something above 0.7. Ideally the diver should point to their dive controller to show the (normally 3) cell readings within a gnats todger of each other.

That simple question means that the diver's demonstrated that:
  • The oxygen is turned on and is being held above the surface setpoint (below which the solenoid, if fitted, injects)
  • The diluent is turned on so they won't sink and can breathe on the way down
  • The electronics are turned on and working; the cells are more or less the same (they'd show flashing red or amber in some controllers if wrong)
  • The diver is awake and thinking
  • The diver can can see their controller (not turned over on the wrist, tucked into some waistband, etc.)
  • That the pre-dive checks have probably been done

Good God, you spend more time complaining about this dirt simple question from the boat crew than an entire lifetime of reaching back, confirming its on, and saying "yup its on thanks"
 

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