Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[ijdod]

(buns vs escape ladder) Assuming no other bunk layout is possible, of course.

I suspect the regulations to be updated to include a certain achievable (within the realistic limitations of vessels such as these) number of requiredescapees per time unit. Regardless of whether or not that would have mattered on Conception, the current standards seem to be lacking, with the clarity of hindsight.

 

[KathyV]

After this incident, I can't imagine anyone will balk at these types of liveaboards becoming a little more expensive to compensate for additional safety features. How much competition is there anyway? This type of LOB is uncommon in the US outside of CA. Maybe a few wreck boats in the Northeast? At one time it was theorized that the cost of air bags in cars would dampen sales.

The Blackbeards boats that operate in the Bahamas have dormitories and bunks and I think that may also be true of some LOBs that operate in the Great Lakes but @Marie13 can answer that.

 

[Akimbo]

If the bunks under the hatch had been removed and replaced with a simple ladder, flanked by emergency internally powered illumination and/or luminous paint (like on aircraft), wouldn't that (1) significantly improve egress, and (2) not involve any significant construction costs, redesign or new flooding risks?

It is a classic engineering conundrum. Increasing the size of a hatch directly impacts construction cost, structural integrity, and reliability -- to say nothing of decreasing the ease and speed of operation. Ask any Navy sailor or Marine what it is like to open one of these:

Granted, there are faster acting clamping mechanisms, but they more failure prone, heavy, and many times more expensive. Egress has been a major concern on combat ships since iron hulls were introduced so it is an excellent place to look for relevant data. The BIG difference here is general boating can't depend on the level of training or physical fitness that the military can.

Please don't take any my comments as "this is the best we can do", because it never will be. I am only trying to point out some of the practical constraints and give people a sense of the great number of person-hours at sea where existing standards have proven satisfactory.

 

[DiveTy]

There have been a number of posts implying that the bunkroom arrangement on the Conception was dangerous and unprecedented. The vast majority of vessels under 30M/100' around the world have the same basic layout -- bunks and staterooms forward, the sole primary/normal exit through the galley/solon area, and engineering spaces aft. The USCG and most marine certification agencies around the world require at least one small emergency hatch. In practice they are primarily used for ventilation in port. This is true for dive and fishing charter boats, sail boats, commercial fishing boats, crew boats, and leisure boats.

It is understandable that people who are unfamiliar with the marine industry might assume that large watertight egress hatches should be standard, until you weigh the very real possibility of hatch failure in heavy seas and suddenly there is a giant hole on the main deck with green water washing over it. Inevitably, every "safety system" can introduce potentially dangerous failure modes, especially in salt water environments.

Ill-informed knee-jerk solutions by committee is never a good idea. It is probably a good thing that the investigation will take a couple of years so mandated changes are well considered rather than in response to political pressure to "do something" (no matter how stupid).

Very well put,I agree 100% and plan on going on another 3 day trip with Truth Aquatics it will be my 3rd trip

 

[Lorenzoid]

The Blackbeards boats that operate in the Bahamas have dormitories and bunks and I think that may also be true of some LOBs that operate in the Great Lakes but @Marie13 can answer that.

I had the (incorrect?) impression that although Blackbeard's has bunks in a dormitory-style room, the boat isn't as crowded, and the room isn't below the main deck. So I haven't thought of Blackbeard's as being in quite the same category. But my impression could be totally mistaken--I haven't seen the deck plans.

 

[doctormike]

It is a classic engineering conundrum. Increasing the size of a hatch directly impacts construction cost, structural integrity, and reliability -- to say nothing of decreasing the ease and speed of operation. Ask any Navy sailor or Marine what it is like to open one of these:

I'm not sure you understand what I am suggesting. I'm not saying anything about the hatch itself. I agree that changing that would be expensive and possibly cause other problems like those that you mentioned.

All I'm saying is that instead of having three bunks under the hatch, just have one ladder bolted to the wall, with emergency lighting. No change to the hatch. No change to the structural integrity of the boat.

 

[KevinNM]

All I'm saying is that instead of having three bunks under the hatch, just have one ladder bolted to the wall, with emergency lighting. No change to the hatch. No change to the structural integrity of the boat.

I don't think the bunk with the hatch was against the wall.

 

[Scuba-74]

The thing I keep coming back to is that absolutely no one from below escaped. This [to me] means one of two things:

1. The entire bunk area was overcome by fumes incapacitating everyone.
2. The entire salon was filled with flames before anyone in the bunk area was aware of the problem. Given the open staircase from the bunks to the salon, I find this improbable [though not impossible].

The way I see it, if fore half of the bunk area and/or salon were filled with flames rendering the staircase unusable, it would have the same effect. I'm convinced that that hatch you and three dozen others need to climb three bunks to get to is all but useless in an emergency.

 

[Marie13]

The Blackbeards boats that operate in the Bahamas have dormitories and bunks and I think that may also be true of some LOBs that operate in the Great Lakes but @Marie13 can answer that.

There is ONE liveaboard on the Great Lakes. It runs out of MN to Isle Royale in Lake Superior. I’m told it only holds 8 passengers max and there is easy access to escape routes from the bunk area.

 

[Wookie]

There is ONE liveaboard on the Great Lakes. It runs out of MN to Isle Royale in Lake Superior. I’m told it only holds 8 passengers max and there is easy access to escape routes from the bunk area.

Canadian flagged or US?