AOW right after OWD

[TSandM]

I think the problem is that there are really two different kinds of AOW classes. One is common, and one is rather rare. The AOW class that Bob teaches is the latter sort -- it is truly a class to advance one's skills, and the diver who has gone through and passed it has definitely achieved a level of diving competence that is "advanced", in comparison with OW.

The common sort of AOW class, as DevonDiver so neatly dissected a page or so ago, really involves no skills that aren't introduced and performed in OW. It can bring in some significant increases in KNOWLEDGE -- Peter teaches gas management in AOW -- but the majority of the skills involved are simply polished and practiced in AOW, rather than being introduced as something new. If the class didn't require a deep dive, and didn't grant "permission" for dives to 100 feet, I don't think we would have these discussions on such a regular basis.

Peter's class expands upon, and polishes buoyancy control, which is a central focus of all the dives. He likes to use an "Underwater Photography" dive to introduce the concept of task-loading and its effects upon buoyancy and buddy skills. The "Deep" dive, which is required, is used as a platform to introduce gas management concepts. He essentially requires that students elect a "PPB" dive as one of their options, and that's spent doing ascent exercises and hovering. The "Nav" dive (also required) is actually not a bad dive to practice buoyancy in shallow water, as well as buddy skills AND basic navigation.

The exercises aren't as difficult as Bob's class, but Peter intends this as a follow-on to OW. New concepts, but no really new skills; just a chance to practice, get critiqued and get pointers from a pro on how to USE basic diving to accomplish common diving tasks.

 

[Panama Jones]

I like the dive shops that allow you to substitute AOW for number of dives. Eg. You can't dive this site unless you have AOW or 50 logged dives. For people that don't log their dives, the OW alone might mean they dive operator won't let them dive a site.

 

[Tigerman]

I like the dive shops that allow you to substitute AOW for number of dives. Eg. You can't dive this site unless you have AOW or 50 logged dives. For people that don't log their dives, the OW alone might mean they dive operator won't let them dive a site.

I dont, AT ALL.
Why? Because 50 quarry dives is nowhere near what you need to do a 100ft dive on a wreck in strong currents with 3 foot swells.
Neither certs nor number of dives by themselves give much clue as to a divers actual experience..

 

[Panama Jones]

I dont, AT ALL.
Why? Because 50 quarry dives is nowhere near what you need to do a 100ft dive on a wreck in strong currents with 3 foot swells.
Neither certs nor number of dives by themselves give much clue as to a divers actual experience..

OK..I`ll certainly give you that

 

[t4e]

I dont, AT ALL.
Why? Because 50 quarry dives is nowhere near what you need to do a 100ft dive on a wreck in strong currents with 3 foot swells.
Neither certs nor number of dives by themselves give much clue as to a divers actual experience..

so how do you propose experience is assessed or do you allow anyone to dive any site/environment they wish to?

 

[Tigerman]

so how do you propose experience is assessed or do you allow anyone to dive any site/environment they wish to?

It is assessed on a daily basis in several large resorts around the world. Its pretty damn controversial on this board, but its called checkout dives..
Its not perfect, but its a whole lot better than dumping people in at random

 

[DevonDiver]

so how do you propose experience is assessed

For decades, agencies have been advising students to maintain log books detailing their experience. Go figure...

 

[dfx]

It is assessed on a daily basis in several large resorts around the world. Its pretty damn controversial on this board, but its called checkout dives..
Its not perfect, but its a whole lot better than dumping people in at random

Perhaps it would be easier if somebody could come up with a program, some kind of proof system, that certifies that the diver in question has both the theoretical knowledge and the practical experience to safely execute those more challenging, one could say advanced, dives. It could be called something like, advanced open water diver certification...

 

[Tigerman]

Perhaps it would be easier if somebody could come up with a program, some kind of proof system, that certifies that the diver in question has both the theoretical knowledge and the practical experience to safely execute those more challenging, one could say advanced, dives. It could be called something like, advanced open water diver certification...

Well, that system is what he wanted to substitute for 50 dives - also its something thats discussed on a regular basis and by many considered useless..
If you have the numbers, the cert AND you can do a couple of checkout dives without killing yourself, atleast things is a BIT more stacked in the favour of the person in question not being a complete tool..

 

[DevonDiver]

It is assessed on a daily basis in several large resorts around the world. Its pretty damn controversial on this board, but its called checkout dives..
Its not perfect, but its a whole lot better than dumping people in at random

It works in some locations. However, there is a cost/time implication to the dive center. That's okay in a low-volume market, such as the Maldives, but not really practicable in a high-volume/turn-over location, such as Koh Tao (Thailand) where dozens of divers may turn up at your shop on any given day...

It also requires either (1) the check-out to be free... and/or (2) every dive operation to conduct check-outs. Otherwise, you can commit business suicide by charging/demanding a check-out dive when competitors don't. It works well in the Maldives because each resort/dive center has a captive market. They can make their rules as they see fit and the customer has no choice but to comply... there is no immediate competition. That's not true in many/most diving areas.

It's also not practical if a holiday diver turns up at the shop at 7pm to book a (challenging) dive trip at 7am the next morning. Nor is it applicable to dive boat charters (dive site taxis) that only provide boat, not diving, services.

Besides which, a check-out dive can mean many things. In the Maldives, I found the (compulsory) check-out dives to be a shallow/confined water repetition of basic OW skills. Whilst that might show a degree of water comfort, it didn't prove any experience for deep, wreck or strong current diving etc...