New Divers Beware: Sketchy dive shop in Cozumel puts profits over safety

[ggunn]

Sure, cvchief.

I was actually using Z's post as an intro to show that our users are quite aware that this thread was already getting dicey; if it had been out of line, I would simply have removed it, as I have already removed several posts from this thread--posts discussing other users' personalities. I'm trying to nip this behavior in the bud before it erupts like one of Mexico's legendary vocanoes, and we can return to dedicating moderator time and effort to other parts of the board, not just Cozumel.

No one expects Popocatepetl!

 

[Deborah Felixson]

Good point. Adding a direct link to the rebuttal post at the end of the OP's so members & guests don't have to wade deep into the thread to hear from Deborah / Deep Blue.

Thank you! so much for suggesting this and to the moderators for doing it. It puts me somewhat at ease about readers getting both sides of the story enabling them to draw their own conclusions from a more knowledgeable perspective.

 

[Diver Kat]

Have to chime in ... after lurking since this thread began .... (and yes, I have read ALL of it!!!!) I've actually had the reverse effect expected .... I honestly think if I was looking for a new dive op, I'd be checking out Deep Blue. Having seen current divers talk about their experiences with DB, and seeing Deborah sign in and speak up - and do so as factually as she could and be professional - with the dive shops side of things, I've been pretty impressed.

As noted by so much of the ugliness in this thread (and others recently) it's far too easy to spout off on the internet, and far too easy to get caught up in it all. Seems we need an internet rule like the one when your mom would tell you to count to ten before opening your mouth .... maybe a 5 minute time out before hitting that 'Post' button ....

 

[DevonDiver]

... the two words that I was hoping to see that were absent were "we're sorry". Seriously, all this could have been avoided had any member of her staff had just said "we're sorry you injured your ears".

I think that's a fact of modern life. It may be seen or worse, misused, as an admission of guilt by an unscrupulous party with an axe to grind.

In your initial posts, it seemed very clear that you were accusing the dive center for causing your injuries - through negligence and unprofessional conduct. If I were the subject of such accusations, I would be very careful about what I said to the accuser also.

You made accusations on a global public forum and sent them to PADI. It's not unrealistic to assume that you may also have been considering legal action.

I do understand how better communication from the dive shop may have averted some misunderstandings but I've also been on this board, and in this industry, long enough to have seen more than a few undeserved outbursts/assassinations on the behalf of customers - who also failed to fully communicate with the dive shop concerned, in an appropriate way, at an appropriate time.

If your concern with the shop was over 'customer service', then you certainly failed to make that clear in your initial posts. I, like many people, saw those posts as a very critical and damaging report about the safety of the dive shop, the lessons and duty-of-care they provided.

Maybe, your staff should have shown prudence and said "you're not diving with us until your ears clear up" ?!

Again, I see a pattern that reflects the abdication of personal responsibility. If you're ears were sore, then you choose not to dive. YOU choose. The dive centre has no real understanding of your health and fitness at any given moment. How can they be expected to make such decisions for you?

It'd be a sad world if customers turned up at dive centres to be told that they were "not diving with us" because of some potential symptom that a dive centre employee may, or may not, accurately recognize.

Would the same be expected at a car rental booth? At a fairground attraction? At a gymnasium? Would you expect staff to diagnose medical conditions and restrict customer access to services on that basis?

Furthermore, there is no necessity for medical screening for fun dives. Only courses are covered by this requirement. As a qualified diver, you are educated to dive only when fit and healthy to do so. Safe Diving Practices, which you are taught, reinforce that. That means, YOU make the judgement call. If in doubt YOU make the decision to seek qualified medical advise on the issue, relative to your intention to go diving.

Since ear injuries make up about 1/3 of diving accidents or injuries I really wish the idea of "equalize often" had been stressed more but I also should have apparently been focused on that much more than I did that day and throughout my training.

It's in the manual, the eLearning, the Knowledge Reviews, the quizzes, the exam... it's reinforced in confined water and open water dives.

If the concept didn't sink in, then I don't think the blame can lie with PADI, or the instructors.

Another question to you Deb, in the E-Learning course a lot of time was spent on Dive Planning, Dive Tables and the RDP, why was it not mentioned and why was there no dive planning or any hands on review? Is this SOP? Seriously, I'd like to know.

That's a fair point and something still to be addressed by the dive operator, IMHO. Dive planning is a stated requirement/standard on the dives.

How it is approached may vary from dive center to dive center. I've seen the dive planning given to students as homework on the night prior to diving. I've seen it done in communal groups on the boat or in the classroom. I've also seen instructors who sit back and see if students are pro-active in doing what they've been taught to do. I've seen instructors who do the planning, but brief the students on that planning as part of the pre-dive brief. It varies. I have also seen dive centers that neglect this aspect - where the instructor does the planning and a 'follow me...' approach is used. IMHO, that doesn't empower divers and may not satisfy PADI standards for the dives.

if the E-Learning is so "pathetic" why does PADI offer it at all?

Ker-ching!

I got 100's on most of the tests and 90% on the final. I felt I had learned the basics pretty well.

Did the 10% missed include 'equalizing often'? You stated earlier that this was not taught obviously enough...

My point in starting this forum thread was to warn other newbies like me to be careful who they choose to learn to dive with.

If it were, then I most certainly wouldn't have gotten involved. However, it was very clear that your 'point' was to discourage other divers specifically from using the named dive center, through the act of portraying that dive center as unsafe and unprofessional. Those were misguided accusations on your behalf.

It sounds like in the court of public opinion here, I was the one at fault, should have known better and should have acted more professionally. I accept that.

Scubaboard is a community. People have opinions and experience to share. I think, in general, we see allegations about dive centers as being quite serious - and worthy of investigation. Those involved in this debate have approached it with varying degrees of open-mindedness.

I didn't see you complaining about public opinion when initial threat respondents unquestioningly supported your allegations and leapt into condemnation of this dive center.

Had questions not be raised, nor other witnesses involved, then I seriously suspect you'd have been very satisfied with the thread. As it is, you've learned more, about both the diving aspects and the methods of investigating/raising complaint - and that's a great benefit from being on Scubaboard.

Again, had I known THEN what I know NOW everything, including the method of training I chose, I would have done differently.

Hence my advice to ask questions first, and only make accusations when you are certain of the facts.

I don't see why a mature adult should need to 'learn' the concept that it is unfair to make allegations, without having first ensured that those allegations were correct and reasonable.

..but if you did, then that's a positive result.

 

[Deborah Felixson]

In response to Deborah (the owner of Deep Blue) and her post of over 800 words, the two words that I was hoping to see that were absent were "we're sorry". Seriously, all this could have been avoided had any member of her staff had just said "we're sorry you injured your ears". Hell, Gary could have easily sent a follow up email last week expressing some remorse and showing a little concern. "Are you ok? Hope you had a good time" etc. That would NOT have been any admission of guilt just I feel, good customer service. Obviously, my expectations are too high. Even when I was still in CZM I would drop by the office (I had no phone so I couldn't call Deb) and check in to update your staff with my status. For you to proudly say that you didn't charge me for a cancellation, that was big of you. Maybe, your staff should have shown prudence and said "you're not diving with us until your ears clear up" ?! Instead of recommending I get Sudafed and nasal spray decongestant. This is just my opinion and have a different perspective of customer service. Since ear injuries make up about 1/3 of diving accidents or injuries I really wish the idea of "equalize often" had been stressed more but I also should have apparently been focused on that much more than I did that day and throughout my training. Another question to you Deb, in the E-Learning course a lot of time was spent on Dive Planning, Dive Tables and the RDP, why was it not mentioned and why was there no dive planning or any hands on review? Is this SOP? Seriously, I'd like to know. This morning I withdrew my complaint from PADI and have requested that my other posts be deleted as well. My apologies to you and R.

Apology accepted. Thank you so much for realizing what an unfair negative impact your original post could cause, on such worldwide forums, and withdrawing them. Much appreciated.

We ARE sorry anytime our clients/friends have health issues while on holiday - we can all certainly empathize with that. But no, we do not follow up every time our clients comment about stomach problems, headaches, muscle aches, or other physical conditions after they leave here. I handle 20-30 divers a day - it would be pretty hard to keep up with all that. Sorry if you expected that from us and we let you down. Gary is pretty sure that at some point he said something like "sorry to hear that happened to you". Maybe the other girl behind the desk, being a woman, might've showed more empathy than old English Gary, who knows....

My staff are not doctors and cannot and will not make the call on whether anyone should dive or not. Rafael suggested you might take some Sudafed because you also commented that you were congested, but he strongly suggested you go to the DAN clinic and get checked out by a professional ear/nose/doctor which they have there, and you did.

Regarding the Dive Planning, dive tables and RDP, you were to have already covered that in the e-learning, and as you said yourself - you spent a lot of time in that. The entire "briefing" you got on the boat prior to the dive was your Dive Plan and more - let me jog your memory - started with the topic of the importance of drinking water before diving, going over all the hand signals in the water, and on the surface, the whole dive from beginning to end, the dive plan itself, starting with jumping off the boat, what to do on the surface, during the decent, the maximum depth, checking your gauges, ascent, safety stop, etc. etc. We happen to use computer gauges standard on all dives so you where taught how to interpret/use a dive computer, and upon your return you were instructed on how to log your dives. Was any of this missing? Rafael assured me he went over all of this. Do you disagree?

Thanks to all that posted here and helped you understand some things a bit better and inspired you to do the honorable thing by withdrawing your posts and complaint to PADI. I hope that this does not discourage you from diving again. I would recommend that when you do, you take a Refresher Course and go over all of your concerns with an Instructor.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with us and even though I do not feel responsible for it, I can very sincerely say that I'm sorry it happened and hope you recover fully soon.

 

[Ben Prusinski]

Heck when I did my checkout dives in the Caribbean, I got lost learning to use a compass for navigation and was lucky to find my instructor and the boat! My instructor was puzzled and worried and we did a review of the basics and finally I got my navigation back. I realized ultimately its my responsibility and did not get mad or complain because I had to learn myself how to dive. Instructors teach and guide but in the end, we are to become self sufficient and responsible for becoming safe happy divers.

 

[ggunn]

Heck when I did my checkout dives in the Caribbean, I got lost learning to use a compass for navigation and was lucky to find my instructor and the boat! My instructor was puzzled and worried and we did a review of the basics and finally I got my navigation back. I realized ultimately its my responsibility and did not get mad or complain because I had to learn myself how to dive. Instructors teach and guide but in the end, we are to become self sufficient and responsible for becoming safe happy divers.

Any teacher will tell you that. A teacher's role is not to open your skull and pour the knowledge in, ready to use. It is to show you the way to learn things for yourself.

 

[cruiser]

Any teacher will tell you that. A teacher's role is not to open your skull and pour the knowledge in, ready to use. It is to show you the way to learn things for yourself.

So true. A teacher's job is to "teach," and the student's job is to "learn."

 

[bvana1]

[video=youtube_share;ow2yZLSPtCc]http://youtu.be/ow2yZLSPtCc[/video]

 

[Thalassamania]

Any teacher will tell you that. A teacher's role is not to open your skull and pour the knowledge in, ready to use. It is to show you the way to learn things for yourself.

So true. A teacher's job is to "teach," and the student's job is to "learn."

That's like saying that the contractor is not responsible for the quality of construction and the house that he builds. In my world (which is clearly different from yours) if the student has not learned, then by definition, I have not taught. My role is to do whatever it takes to assure that the learning objectives have been met, with some students who are self motivated and not phobic that can be very easy, with others it may take trying a number of different approaches, but in any case, the quality of students' performance at the end of the course is a reflection on me.