Sharks vs. Cave Diving

[tstormdiver]

This is kinda what I thought. It makes my irrational fear a bit more irrational I guess...

I would be reluctant to call your fears irrational. Maybe fear due to lack of education on the 2 subjects (sharks & cave diving). They are real fears to you. Fear is not always a bad thing, it is a tool to help us to survive. When it becomes irrational is when the individual refuses to educate themselves on the topic(s) that is causing the fear & using that fear as an excuse to not educate themselves. After education, then if there is still fear, then it is a founded fear. Read up on the hunting instincts & tactics of sharks & various species common to the areas you will be diving. Also read on the skills & rules taught to cave divers, the what's, why's, how's, where's, when's & who's of cave diving, though these will never take the place of good, proper training to do this kind of diving. There are many resources on these topics, including here.

 

[DivingPhan]

well devon it depends what if godzilla is attacking while theyre in deco

 

[Robert Gillcash]

Where'd that statistic come from?

Don't you know? 72.3% of all statistics are made up.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

If the number of dives you have logged is accurate, you need a lot more training before contemplating cave diving. You will eventually need advanced nitrox and decompression procedure certifications before you can complete the full cave course. However, you can take the Cavern and Introduction to Cave courses to see if it is really something that you like.

Although I don't fully understand the concept of a non deco full cave dive, I have heard here on SB that there are full cave certs possible without deco.

 

[Scubagolf]

Don't you know? 72.3% of all statistics are made up.

If you want statistics on cave diving deaths, here is a power point presentation on the subject.

 

[knfmn]

I don't mean to start a war here, but an observation I've made is that the two men who seem to be the most well known of the cave diving "forefathers" have something in common...they're both dead. Sheck Exley and Wes Skiles both died while diving. Admittedly Sheck was diving at depths that most of us have a hard time contemplating and Wes was diving in the ocean, but it makes me think. It seems like eventually, no matter how well trained you are, you run into a problem you can't fix if you dive in caves often enough. Does that seem like a reasonably accurate assessment, or is there something I'm missing?

Kristopher

 

[PfcAJ]

I don't think thats the case at all. Plenty of folks have long cave diving careers and never encounter a fatal situation.

The key to it all is to get QUALITY training and follow that training. People die when they don't abide by those two conditions.

 

[knfmn]

I don't think thats the case at all. Plenty of folks have long cave diving careers and never encounter a fatal situation.

The key to it all is to get QUALITY training and follow that training. People die when they don't abide by those two conditions.

Ok. Point well taken. I was posting based upon the number of cave diving deaths and the number of near misses I've read about that have been encountered by people with hundreds of cave dives under their belts.

Kristopher

 

[TSandM]

I think a lot of activities can become extremely high risk when you are pushing the edge of the envelope. Diving to the depths where Sheck went is STILL highly dangerous (Google Dave Shaw) despite improvements in equipment, gases, and decompression strategies.

If you aren't pushing virgin cave or pushing the limits of your gas, your equipment or your training to get somewhere, I think you can probably cave dive for a long time quite safely. I think the training, if you follow it, is enough to get you out of most of the situations you are likely to encounter . . . at least, when I read the "near misses" on the cave diver forum, they are mostly things I think I would handle fairly calmly.

Complacency is a huge danger with all diving, and I would expect it is with cave diving, as well. As you become more familiar with and comfortable in the environment, it would be easy to decide that things like running line aren't all that necessary, or to decide that you're ready for some really complex navigation or small, silty tunnels, when you may not be. Respect for the environment and prudence are probably the two biggest things that keep folks safely diving.

 

[knfmn]

I think a lot of activities can become extremely high risk when you are pushing the edge of the envelope. Diving to the depths where Sheck went is STILL highly dangerous (Google Dave Shaw) despite improvements in equipment, gases, and decompression strategies.

If you aren't pushing virgin cave or pushing the limits of your gas, your equipment or your training to get somewhere, I think you can probably cave dive for a long time quite safely. I think the training, if you follow it, is enough to get you out of most of the situations you are likely to encounter . . . at least, when I read the "near misses" on the cave diver forum, they are mostly things I think I would handle fairly calmly.

Complacency is a huge danger with all diving, and I would expect it is with cave diving, as well. As you become more familiar with and comfortable in the environment, it would be easy to decide that things like running line aren't all that necessary, or to decide that you're ready for some really complex navigation or small, silty tunnels, when you may not be. Respect for the environment and prudence are probably the two biggest things that keep folks safely diving.

I actually just finished reading "Raising the dead" this weekend. I have a hard time having any sympathy for Dave Shaw, other than the obvious feelings one has for his wife and children and the loss of a human life. He died on his 333rd dive, didn't he? I feel that that's MUCH too early in one's dive career to be pushing the type of limits he was pushing. I realize that he was training as far as you can be trained before he did his last dive, but I can't help but feel, (especially as I watched the video) that if he'd had a ton more dives with the issues that are bound to crop up during those dives, he might have been able to save himself. This is all MHO, of course, but it's how I feel.

You mention respect for the environment and prudence in your post. I feel that Dave Shaw lacked respect for the conditions he was diving in. It seems to be a well known fact that ANY exertion at the depths he was diving at is potentially fatal, yet he went down and was trying to hustle a body into a body bag. I admire the thought, but question the thinking that really went into that dive. The first thing speaks to a lack of respect for the environment/conditions. Prudence....he was diving with a camera mounted to his helmet that he'd never tried before, which forced him to stow his light by letting it dangle when he needed to use both hands. Prudence tells me that I don't need to have anything dangling when I'm doing open water dives, let alone dives at 800++ feet where you're essentially squatting on top of the line that is the only thing that will get you out of there.

I want to state again that I do have the utmost sympathy for Mr Shaw's family and feel badly that he lost his life. I just question the amount of thinking/real respect for the conditions he dove into.

Kristopher