PADI speciality courses

[DevonDiver]

specialities really are more of a prestige then anything as MOST of them are things you can realy learn with a good dive partner.

I agree. But the process of self-tuition is longer and less efficient.

But at the cost the courses come in it is not exactlt cost effective...

It depends on the cost of the course. Many of the courses can be priced at little more than the cost of dives alone; just allowing for the certification fee and the cost of the manual.

Now Boat diver is one I still scratch my head on as why would I pay some one 150 dollars to let me go to a remote location with the emphasis on the boat dives themselves when I can spend that same money on a boat dive that the focus is a spectacular wall dive or coral dive?????

It is a tricky one to justify... especially as most divers are taught from a boat anyway.

However, there is a considerable proportion of divers who might do their OW training in a fresh-water environment. They might benefit from learning how to keep their gear together and tidy on a boat, how to safely exit via a ladder... the different procedures and routines used on dayboats and liveaboards...

I've also seen them run (at small cost) in the UK, to help divers become familiar with the specific skills and drills needed for safe diving from a RIB.

As I mentioned earlier... Boat Diver is definitely a course that shouldn't cost much more than simply going diving. Small extra cost, small benefit.

Fish ID is one that I am shocked at even charging remotely the price asked as in most cases you can buy a good book on fish and do the same in your leasure.

I know a few instructors who are qualified marine biologists. Their Fish ID courses are truly excellent. They look beyond the 'ID' and further into the marine ecosystem, identifying predator/prey relationships, behavioural habits, mating rituals, symbiosis, parastitic behaviours etc.... fascinating stuff, that really brings the underwater world 'alive' for the diver.

As you say... buy a good book. Would the Fish ID manual count as a good book?

This is a course that's value depends entirely on the motivation and knowledge of the instructor who provides it.

I haven't taught any Fish ID spec courses, although I have provided many AOW Fish ID elective dives. I go beyond the training requirements... showing divers how to research and identify fish using online/internet resources, fish databases, the use of species, sub-species and genus names, how to effectively search using known information etc etc Basically, to me... it is a research course, rather than an underwater course.

I have yet to figure out ones like... Peak performance buoyancy

I love teaching PPB. It's a course that can make a real difference for many divers. Yes, any diver will develop their buoyancy, weight, trim and propulsion over time... but why suffer the distractions of perfecting that on your pleasure dives.

I find that my PPB students generally come in three catagories and these are reflected in the way that I tailor my courses to them:

1) Remedial. Students who were badly taught in the first instance, and 'graduate' OW training with little comprehension of proper weighting, finning or buoyancy control.

2) Development. Students who have good basic buoyancy control, but wish to take it to a perfected level. This is really taught as a clinic, with lots of analysis and feedback. Student is videoed. By the end, their are at perfect weighting, can hover horizontally, they understand trim...and have their kit properly configured to enable that... and the use of breath control is understood and becomes an ingrained function.

3) Advanced. Students who already possess good basic skills, but wish to learn specific skills that relate to more advanced diving practices. The PPB course would include; alternative finning techniques (modified flutter, frog kick), precision control techniques (helicopter turn, back kick), fine control bouyancy (i.e. horizontal hover +/- 1m for 10 mins and horizontal ascents). The students will alse be assisted to determine their ideal weighting and trim (especially useful for new BP&W users).

As you can see, my 'advanced' PPB is very simular to certain elements of a 'Fundies' course. It's good for novice wreck divers or future tech divers.

I have masterd buoyancy and yet never spent a dime on the cert other then the one dive given to me in AOW.

That is very true. My point, however, is that you have hundreds of dives experience....how much dollar value would you have put on having that same level of mastered buoyancy when you were still a novice with 20 dives?

 

[k ellis]

Wow Devon I have to give credit where credit is due. I have debated with alot of people on here and a few got quiet heated but your last post was one of the best responses I have read yet. Thank you for the positive responses.

And you are right that it has taken time to master buoyancy. When I was new I was actually to be honest intimidated by the specialty course. I Know I should not have been but with my career path and everything believe it or not its hard to admit sometimes your not up to par LOL.

If and again this is IF a teacher puts their heart into it and does not say this is a goat fish and then go to the next photo and say this is a clown fish then I can see there may be a little incentive to pay for a fish course. If they go to the extremes to when I walk out of the class I can tell you what every fish eats or at least have been taught that in the last couple hours then it would be worth some money.

Boat diver just floors me not because its something that is ineffective (Because as you said some divers may have only logged hundreds of shore dives and never once dove from a boat) but the sheer cost of the class in most cases including time to take you out and miss ample time to dive for enjoyment is out of this world. One of the reasons I say that is you work a job in a landlocked area such as mine where its a minimum of 10 hours to the nearest salt water so you plan on taking a weeks vacation and on this you tie up considerable time to both study, perhaps maybe a class room venture (Dont know about this specialty) and then on top of that a small lecture and thats all valuable vacation time lost.

If I was dumbing the buoyancy course it was not my intention because I always encourage a new diver to seek more training if thats what they want because it encourages them to continue to learn. I just felt myself having dove the amount of time I have I have learned a great amount of dive skills just by trial and error. Best of all I learned stress free and set my own self limits to make it enjoyable.

Again by looking at my certs I would be a hypocrit if I said specialties were worthless because I have them. And I enjoyed every last class I have taken I just want people to understand diving is a self paced easy to learn sport with the main emphasis focusing on the main line certs. Open Water, AOW, rescue and then branching which ever way they choose from there such as master or dive master.

The specialties are just a bonus for enjoyment in the sport Anyway thanks for the positive reply!

 

[Quero]

specialities really are more of a prestige then anything as MOST of them are things you can realy learn with a good dive partner.

It's true that I learned most of what I know about diving by diving, but I'm a water baby, live in SE Asia, have a live-in buddy who is an excellent diver that I can travel with, and lots-&-lots of opportunities to dive within a hop, skip, and jump from my home base. (Because of this, I had many hundreds of dives before I even became a dive pro.) Even so, it took me many more dives to nail things like Nav all by myself than I would have needed had I invested in a course--it would have been quicker and I probably wouldn't ever have got turned around if I'd put in a couple of focused Nav training dives with an Instructor.

I have yet to figure out ones like Boat diver...

I have to say, when I "teach" this topic, I don't award a cert unless students specifically ask for it. I just do it as part of the DLD dive tour, so there's no additional cost for learning materials or certification processing unless they want the card. I have had a number of fresh-water divers who have needed a really thorough overview of boat diving--and I don't mean just learning terms like "head," "galley," starboard," "aft." The last thing I want before jumping into deep water is a diver who is stressed out because they don't know what to expect from a boat dive. A lot of the training is tips like when to set up, how to stow gear, where to throw up in case of seasick, review of giant-stride entries, how to do live entries from boats, how to swim up to a boat that is approaching for a pickup, tips for ladder exits/RIB exits, etc. It's not so much about dive skills, but more about stress-reduction. There are occasional threads here in Basic Scuba from people who have never dived from a boat. They ask because they don't know, and there's no harm in hiring a professional to give you the goods on it, even if it is just as part of the DLD experience.

...Fish ID...

This is one I definitely wish I'd done a course in rather than learning it myself. It took ages for me to learn to identify fish by their shapes, to know how to use a fish ID book, learn which websites are useful, etc. IMO this course is a good addition to UW Photo since most shutterbugs do want to identify their subjects, and getting tips on how to do this is quite helpful. Again, it's not a diving skills topic, but it is a diving enjoyment topic! I've got this fantastic little slate that I give students to use on the dives; it has fish shapes, fin positions, mouth types, etc. on it--I point to a fish and they find the right shape, take some notes, and observe behavior. When we get back to the boat, they find their fish in the book, learning in the process which notes they took were helpful and what they missed. It's fun and really useful for those who are interested in marine life (not everybody is).

...Peak performance buoyancy...

Again, yes, I did this on my own, but it took a while. My daughter/training buddy and I challenged each other and helped one another. But we're water babies--not everybody is, and the information from this topic is stuff that for new divers to figure out on their own can take quite a while. When I teach PPB, I discuss and evaluate goals with my students--I watch them dive, assess what needs to be addressed, and we do it--it might be air consumption with one, trim and finning with another, staying within arm's reach of the bottom without disturbing the sediment with a third... it's so tailored to each student that they invariably come away after just two dives much, much improved, and even more important, very much more aware of their trim, propulsion, and breathing. I teach PPB in a sort of coaching fashion rather than as a cut-and-dried curriculum.

But at the cost the courses come in it is not exactlt cost effective for one to pay say 150 dollars localy (And far more near the salt water) to find a great dive partner and just let him work with you in a controlled shallow environment.

And there's the crux of it. It may not be so easy for many divers to find a good mentor. If there's one available through a dive club or a local group, that's a great way to make progress, as long as the mentor doesn't mind giving up his/her fun dive to tutor a newbie. Those of us who teach diving get paid for our expertise and time, and I don't think it's a rip-off. If I weren't teaching diving and only had limited dive opportunities available to me, I'm not sure I'd be willing to spend an entire day of that limited time to tutor a new diver in exchange for a few tanks of air. It might be a great day's diving for the mentee, but for the mentor it can get old pretty fast, meaning that s/he may not be available to mentor the new divers as often as the new diver would like.

Specialties do have a few classes worth their weight in gold though such as Nitrox. With the refreshed feeling I get post dive (As well as so many other divers who claim the same) it is worth the cost for this course.

And yet it's not even a diving course. This was one of my three "official" specs I took as a student diver (the others were Dry Suit--I trained initially in warm water--and DAN O2 Provider). Most divers agree that the Nitrox course represents time and money well spent, which is why it is the spec class I have the most demand for and the one I most often teach.

 

[k ellis]

And there's the crux of it. It may not be so easy for many divers to find a good mentor. If there's one available through a dive club or a local group, that's a great way to make progress, as long as the mentor doesn't mind giving up his/her fun dive to tutor a newbie. Those of us who teach diving get paid for our expertise and time, and I don't think it's a rip-off. If I weren't teaching diving and only had limited dive opportunities available to me, I'm not sure I'd be willing to spend much of that limited time to tutor a new diver in exchange for a tank of air. It might be a great day's diving for the mentee, but for the mentor it can get old very fast.

Maybe thats my down site of it. I love to teach even though I am not an instructor and I do make that clear up front to people. If they ask me to help them along I love to do so. In fact 9 times out of 10 I would hands down take a newbie over a more veteran diver any day. Newer divers love to learn and most again MOST of them are not egotisical.

In fact I do a lot of cruise ship dive excursions. These tend to more often then not be dives more accustomed to newer divers and many times I find myself the veteran of the group. It does not bother me though and I gladly and proudly welcome new divers who look off the side of the boat just like a child looks at christmas tree and presents on Christmas day.

On my last outing I for once in my dive life time got cattle boated and not one single person on their besides me had more then 75 dives. My partner had 74 and she was the next in line (Besides crew of course) I spent more time chasing down people in distress I think then I did diving. One asthma attack on the surface, one divers snorkel broke and he freaked completely out (Had to remind him calmly to inflate his bcd more) one guy freaked at 80 feet and sky rocketed up (Hed of made it in record time had I not caught his fin and worked with him to the surface) another freaked at 40 feet. I had a hispanic lady who was only comfortable with diving beside me and not at all comfortable diving with the crew. One girl had anxiety issues and by dives end I had probably 15 of the divers clapping for me and giving me a hand. I had to remind them though this was just my experience lol the dive masters were chasing down their fair shares too which is why they werent much help to me.

It felt good though back on the ship people recognizing me and lots of hugs from the pretty ladies while the guys opted for a good old "buy you a beer"

I guess it really made me smile knowing it was not my responsibility and not even certified to do it but yet they found trust in me and faith in my abilities.

But back to the thread in discussion LOL. the specialty courses are great and I cant talk them down. I have made great friends while doing them and great enjoyment with the fact new divers are often out there when we were doing these courses and the smiles of a new world discovered they exhibited was just awesome to see.

 

[joranahan]

Nitrox also teaches new skills. I'd recommend the nitrox, deep, and navigation courses. I'm also a firm believer in the Peak Performance Buoyancy, after watching too many divers struggle with this skill.

 

[Quero]

k_ellis, you sound like a good guy and fun to be around. Last time I was diving from a cruise ship in the Caribbean, I booked all my own dives rather than go through the excursion desk because I was on vacation in a place I infrequently dive, so I just wanted the dives to be MY dives rather than having the kind of experience you had. Good on you, though, for your willingness and good-natured "cat herding" on that dive you describe!

 

[k ellis]

k_ellis, you sound like a good guy and fun to be around. Last time I was diving from a cruise ship in the Caribbean, I booked all my own dives rather than go through the excursion desk because I was on vacation in a place I infrequently dive, so I just wanted the dives to be MY dives rather than having the kind of experience you had. Good on you, though, for your willingness and good-natured "cat herding" on that dive you describe!

Thank you. I have been on many of these dives yet this was the first time I actually got put in a cattle boat. Most time the cruise dives tend to be 8 to 10 divers but this time it hit capacity. In fact they had 2 boats one was a supply/emergency boat which carried extra tanks in the event something went wrong. Each diver on our boat had 1 tank each and it was almost like there was no room. After we used our one tank we returned to dock and they swapped out the tanks for our 2nd tanks.

It was fun though and I enjoyed the company. Diving is social and though sometimes you do want to put a pot knot on some divers heads you just go with what your dealt with. LOL My face book added a few extra divers too

This coming year I have some goals set aside though one being the wreck diver specialty and the second being the dive master class. Believe it or not I just learned to swim without snorkel or mask within the last 6 months so now Im geared up to move forward

 

[Garrobo]

Devon Diver: Do you believe everything posted on this website? You must not have much experience with the internet and what people have to say about themselves. Like reading an MSM newspaper or 'news' program, you have to take most of it with a grain of salt. People have a tendency to embelish the truth when they can remain anonamous and, in my case, don't think it necessary to tell all. Actually, I'm kind of embarrassed to admit that I have plunked down some hard-earned cash to get a piece of paper and card from PADI for several certs which were worthless. I am also a life member of the NRA, Masons, local Chamber of Commerce, Lions and Culinary Association but I didn't post it either.

 

[DevonDiver]

Ok.. I will retract the statement, on the understanding that I'm not psychic.

However, I'd still assume that your understanding of the potential for speciality courses is very limited, because I've still not heard any reasoning for your unsubstantiated views against them.

Did you do all your spec courses with the same dive op? Have you investigated how other dive ops might run the same courses?

 

[Downing]

I've been reading this thread with interest since I'm going to do the PADI Rescue Diver course along with a few specialties this summer while on a two-week vacation in Belize.

Obviously, whether these certs are worth the money and vacation time is a personal decision. For me, it was relatively easy since I'm a warm water wussie living in a cold water climate. Other than my OW and AOW certs, I try to avoid diving locally although I'm still talked into it every now and then. I travel to dive (and my wife says I dive to travel).

Just wanted to point out that with a little bit of advance planning you can save yourself some valuable vacation/dive time by ordering, then studying, the course materials in advance. I did that and should have the materials pretty well memorized by the time I get there.

While the general consensus is that Rescue Diver is well worth taking, there's a lot of disagrement over the specialties

Learning new skills and polishing up old ones is a pretty fun way to spend a vacation, imho.