Solo dives

[DevonDiver]

So basically.... there shouldn't be a disparity between the relative experience of any diver and the relative complexity and risk on any given dive.

Where there is a disparity between experience and risk, it leads to reliance (on the experienced diver present). AKA a 'trust me dive'.

I think we can all agree that 'trust me' dives are irresponsible and dangerous....

 

[danvolker]

So basically.... there shouldn't be a disparity between the relative experience of any diver and the relative complexity and risk on any given dive.

Where there is a disparity between experience and risk, it leads to reliance (on the experienced diver present). AKA a 'trust me dive'.

I think we can all agree that 'trust me' dives are irresponsible and dangerous....

Agreed But then there will be nothing to argue about.

 

[Mike Juren]

I solo dive all the time. Read books by Gary Gentile, where you can acquire a lot of knowledge why and how superb divers solo dive. Carry a pony, please. 2 knives and 2 lights, a lift bag and a reel.
Have fun, be prepared.

 

[ozarkdiver]

"If you seriously consider your buddy part of your safety strategy, you may well be setting yourself up for failure in case he/she does not react well in a real emergency." - bmrwizard99

Wizard, that's one of the best points anyone's made. Betting your life on something/someone you have no control over is a bad decision. No one can guarantee how someone will react in an emergency, no matter how experienced. All the more reason to have people trained as "independent" divers in their initial training.

 

[danvolker]

"If you seriously consider your buddy part of your safety strategy, you may well be setting yourself up for failure in case he/she does not react well in a real emergency." - bmrwizard99

Wizard, that's one of the best points anyone's made. Betting your life on something/someone you have no control over is a bad decision. No one can guarantee how someone will react in an emergency, no matter how experienced. All the more reason to have people trained as "independent" divers in their initial training.

Well, considering the state of lax training standards that exists today, the majority of divers you are saying this to may well be horribly under-equipped to handle issues "independantly". Imagine the "modular" approach to solo diving instruction--

• solo diver 1....Can handle himself safely in a swimming pool for up to 1 hour
• solo diver 2...can handle mimself safely in 30 feet of water or less, when there are no entanglement hazzards, no currents, no penetration( wrecks), and no other advanced threats

By the time the student has paid their way up to solo diver 10, they may have paid enough to handle the typical threat scenarios of a 75 foot deep dive on a reef in the tropics. This is assuming that any students that could not perform skills as required were flunked---and not allowed to progress....of course you know, a huge number of students get passed without being able to perform the skills required.

Also, there is a significat portion of the population that will panic in an extreme situation, such as entanglent while OOA or Low on air...Solo, this is going to require a non-panick type of diver--but, with the buddy system, the buddy is not at immediate risk at all, and should not have anything close to the same level of panic, thus is more likely to be able to successfully FIX the situation.

I do not believe that training will suddenly become far more intense and effective for solo....there will be the profit driven desire to get more people into a class, and there will be many solo divers who absolutely will not be safe by themselves.
If a return to 1970 style harrassment training with air being shut off, and ditch and don, and serious hard core skills are enforced, Solo like this would put out much better divers ( or flunk them out of the system)...
....It would also prevent 95% of those interested in diving solo on this board, from signing up!!!! It would cost too much, take too long, and be too hard!!!

Same reason that 80 percent of SB members are not GUE certified.

The solo direction is a big mistake.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This is assuming that any students that could not perform skills as required were flunked---and not allowed to progress....of course you know, a huge number of students get passed without being able to perform the skills required.

...

I do not believe that training will suddenly become far more intense and effective for solo....there will be the profit driven desire to get more people into a class, and there will be many solo divers who absolutely will not be safe by themselves.

This is already the case, Dan ... I've met and dived with several people who have passed the SDI solo class, and yet lack even rudimentary buoyancy control skills ... one even explained his gas management strategy to me as "I just stay down till I run out of air, then switch to my pony and come up" ... :shocked2:

The same motivation to pass people exists whether the class is OW or solo, and for the same reason ... because in many cases, classes are viewed more as a way to promote gear purchases than to train divers ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[danvolker]

This is already the case, Dan ... I've met and dived with several people who have passed the SDI solo class, and yet lack even rudimentary buoyancy control skills ... one even explained his gas management strategy to me as "I just stay down till I run out of air, then switch to my pony and come up" ... :shocked2:

The same motivation to pass people exists whether the class is OW or solo, and for the same reason ... because in many cases, classes are viewed more as a way to promote gear purchases than to train divers ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Which is what is so scary about this thread.... Yikes!

 

[Jax]

This is already the case, Dan ... I've met and dived with several people who have passed the SDI solo class, and yet lack even rudimentary buoyancy control skills ... one even explained his gas management strategy to me as "I just stay down till I run out of air, then switch to my pony and come up" ... :shocked2:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Just because someone passes a course doesn't mean they have to adopt or practice what they learn.

The Gubermint requires people that have bounced checks / failed to pay bills to attend a fairly extensive financial planning course. Doesn't stop them. Some people just choose to do the stupid thing.

How about the teenager that totaled two cars doing the Tokyo slide? You'd think he'd learned the first time . . . .

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

Originally Posted by NWGratefulDiver
This is already the case, Dan ... I've met and dived with several people who have passed the SDI solo class, and yet lack even rudimentary buoyancy control skills ... one even explained his gas management strategy to me as "I just stay down till I run out of air, then switch to my pony and come up" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

You don't have to be solo to be reckless. I have met plenty of OW / AOW card holders that frightened me just as much. Its just when you do something stupid when solo, you're alone. Then again the first time time I needed my buddy on a dive, I showed her the problem I was having, she flashed me an OK hand sign and swam off?

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I do not believe that training will suddenly become far more intense and effective for solo....there will be the profit driven desire to get more people into a class, and there will be many solo divers who absolutely will not be safe by themselves.
If a return to 1970 style harrassment training with air being shut off, and ditch and don, and serious hard core skills are enforced, Solo like this would put out much better divers ( or flunk them out of the system)...
....It would also prevent 95% of those interested in diving solo on this board, from signing up!!!! It would cost too much, take too long, and be too hard!!!

Same reason that 80 percent of SB members are not GUE certified.

The solo direction is a big mistake.

GUE helped bring the concept of high standards to the mainstream dive community. Why does solo diving preclude high quality training such as is provided by GUE, just by another agency. Surely the team diving concept and standardization isn't why GUE is so high performing--it just adds to what makes GUE such a great place to learn DIR diving.

I dont do solo diving, and I dont plan on doing it any time in the future--i tend to love team diving. However, I dont know why, even as a team diver, i wouldn't want to be solo competent. In fact I do, and I want really great education in solo as well to achieve that goal.