Thought about Cave Diving?

[JahJahwarrior]

Exactly, I want to see divers move forward. I want to see them diving safely. I don't necessarily want to encourage them to take their safe diving into a cave. If they do, and they do it safely, I'll be so glad they get to experience what I do. However, I want to be cautious not to encourage people to cave dive if they don't want to.

I think what is most important is making sure people realize that the number one cause of death in a cave is lack of training. No training besides a cave diving class prepares you for cave diving. I've seen countless open water instructors who could never pass a "real" cavern course where you earned the card instead of buying it.



The point really hit home for me this summer when I hopped into a small cave known for the death of two open water divers several years before. The cave isn't usually very clear, so when I saw it was, I had to take a look. It was obvious no one had been in there in a long time. I happened to know, because I read the accident reports, that the recovery team never found one mask. Guess what I found 3/4 of the way to the end of the line, mostly buried in silt? A Dacor mask, obviously in the system for several years. Guess what brand equipment the diver who's body left the cave maskless was covered in? Dacor.

There is nothing like holding the mask of a dead man, a man who pulled it from his face in a blind panic as he clawed at the roof of the cave in his final moments, desperate for air, in your hand, to teach you how dangerous cave diving is.

Last week I remembered the two year anniversary of the death of two friends of mine who died diving in a cave, without certification. I still have some gear I bought from one of them a few weeks before they died. Those memories also keep me from doing anything reckless in a cave.

Caves are beautiful, but they are deadly. I hope all divers stay safe first of all, and enjoy the beauty wherever they dive.


The photo in my profile is a shot by this photographer: Blue Horizon Photography

 

[tstormdiver]

Wow,....... Excellent points Jahjah. Those encounters would certainly bring home the seriousness. certainly a different perspective on it.

 

[vinegarbiscuit]

I am on the fence about encouraging people to cave dive.

I don't mean to be rude, but I look around at all these OW divers I see, and most of them scare the living daylights out of me. I don't want them in or near the water, let alone caves. I'm constantly amazed that the majority of them surface alive.

I'm also upset that it takes a cavern course to teach someone PROPER diving technique and safety facts such as gas planning.

I also feel that there are a lot of cave diving instructors that don't prepare people to cave dive safely. Open water divers aren't the only ones who scare me, the only ones who I wonder how they survive a dive.

I also question the use of equipment that does not provide for true redundancy even within the daylight of a cave.


Caves are absolutely amazing. I cannot fathom how people would not want to cave dive. I would not trade my experiences in caves for anything, and I wish there was a way for everyone to experience what I have in there.

But caves are dangerous. They kill a lot of people. A lot of people destroy the caves. A lot of people shouldn't be scuba diving, but are. A lot of people shouldn't be passing people with their mediocre skill set, but are. Call me a jaded old fart, or a pessimistic people hater...I just don't want divers dying in caves. If that makes me a terrible person, so be it, I suppose.

If you want to get into cave diving, I suggest you start by reading the documents produced by the cave diving agencies and the rescue agencies on the dangers of cave diving. Then contact a GOOD instructor. Find one where their students say "his/her class was the hardest thing I have ever done. I had to work my butt off for that certification, and when it was done with, I earned it." Whatever you do, do not dare go with the lowest priced instructor. This is your life you are talking about here. If anyone snickers when you say who you are taking class with, that's a bad sign. Then, be a good diver. Don't suck at diving. It's really not that hard, just stop being a terrible diver.

Start Here and read all of the accident reports. To go above and beyond, interview someone who has helped with a recovery.

In that spirit, I always have a good laugh when I read the late Steve Berman's student waiver (pasted below). Some enterprising soul posted it on TDS, and it makes me chortle every time. I wish I could have known him - he sounded awesome.

Uniform Florida Scuba Instruction Agreement and Release

The undersigned agrees and stipulates that CAVERN/CAVE DIVING is an insanely dangerous activity and that the instructional personnel were just sitting around minding their own business telling diving stories, when the undersigned, who agrees that he/she is a raving loon, came barging in uninvited, waiving a loaded assault rifle and demanded that he/she be given cavern/cave instruction for the express purpose of suffering serious injury and/or death, leaving the instructor with no reasonable choice but to enter into this agreement. The undersigned further acknowledges that he/she has no desire to continue life without said instruction and would take his/her life and the life of anybody else in the area, without further thought, should said instruction be denied. The undersigned further agrees that he/she will hold harmless all instructional personnel involved in his/her course of instruction
for any and all claims he/she has or that may arise now and forever after including but not limited to negligence acts, omissions, torts, intentional torts, crimes, and high treason that he/she may suffer.

Further, this agreement/release is to be binding now and forever as to the undersigned and his/her estate, assigns and heirs should they not also die.

Further, the undersigned agrees that all scuba equipment purchased and jewelry worn by him/her shall become property of whatever instructor he/she is under, or supposedly under the control of, if and when death or serious injury results.

Signed by _______________________this____day______2008
Armed Student diver Sign or make mark above

_________________ __________________
Witness Witness

 

[Thalassamania]

Bill,

I used to think about cave diving often, especially when I saw the beautiful films from the Yucatan or after a bud took me a ways back into Wakulla. The cave divers that I've worked with on non-cave projects have always pushed me to join them,they said that I would make a great cave diver. So, back in the early 1990s Parker Turner (whom I had first met at the AAUS Dive Computer workshop five or so years before) persuaded me to learn to cave dive. We were starting to discuss time and place and clear our calendars in the fall of 1991, when I was shocked by the tragedy in Indian Springs.

As Mike Menduno wrote: "We later learned that the two were ending their dive when a wall of sand trapped them inside the cave. Parker tried desperately to tunnel his way through to safety. He went so far as to take off his double tanks, hoping he could fit. He managed to clear a partial path only to die a mere 30 feet from a stage bottle. Up until the end, Parker's actions benefited someone else. That path he cleared helped guide his buddy Gavin to safety."

Frankly I still have not completely recovered from that and other descriptions of the incident. Parker on a bad day was at least as good a diver as I was at my best, and from all that can be learned he handled himself far better than I think I could have handled myself. I still have a cold and gripping feeling of fear and dread when I think about it, even as I type this now.

So I took cave diving off the stove, not onto the back burner, but off the stove. A few years later I got to know Sheck Exley as a result of my work with aquaCorps and the Tek Conferences. Over time Sheck convinced me what had happened to Parker was a fluke or nature, one that had to be accepted as "when your time is up, it's up." The next few paragraphs are so obvious that I'll neither put myself through the pain of writing it nor you thorough the discomfort of reading it.

About the years later I was at DEMA in Las Vegas having dinner with Jeff Bozanic, who has been a close friend since we met over my revision of NAUI's standards in the mid 1980s. We were up in the Star Trek theme club talking about our sons (who are about the same age) when Jeff said to me, "Don't you want to learn to cave dive?" I though about Parker clawing through the sand, I pictured Sheck trying to sort out his tanks at almost 900 feet his body wracked by HPNS as he gave up and wound the guide line around his valves so that no one else would be hurt. I thought about my son, I thought about Jeff's son, Evan. Tears ran down my cheeks. Jeff misunderstood what he was seeing (partly) and said, "You really miss your boy? I miss Evan too." I dried my eyes on my napkin and told Jeff that I was not interested in cave diving.

There is a piece of me that really wants to see what's there, there's another piece of me that is afraid of "monsters from the ID," the ghosts of Parker and Sheck and many others who were far more experienced cave divers than I'd ever be. I think I'll stay out of caves.

 

[Jax]

Excellent thread, folks!

Thanks!

 

[LiteHedded]

can't say I don't think about that accident every time i pass through that restriction.

 

[stairman]

The whole idea of this thread is to open the eyes of OW divers to the dangers of overhead dives without proper training and equipment. Many cavers dont want more divers in the sport but none of us want anymore fatalities either. To those not interested they may not even read whats said here. To those that are, the first step in training is a formal cavern course, and by diving within your training you then take the next step if you want to see whats around the next corner. No instructor has the right to take OW divers beyond the daylight zone which is being done on occation and could be pulled off till an emergency occurs, inwhich panic and possible separation would leave you and maybe the whole team in deep sh!t.

 

[Lee Taylor]

I realize there are those that love cave diving. I have a pal that loves it. BUT, he said he dislikes two things about cave diving. His feeling is that the scenery never changes. He says no matter how deep he goes it looks the same to him. I imagine there are those that see it differently.

He said he also dislikes that there is practically no life in the caves and tunnels in comparison to the open ocean.

For me personally I do not like what I feel is high risk. Some people thrive on it. I like having a clear shot to the surface.

I do feel the photos of the huge caverns with clear water are beautiful and I respect those that made the dive in order to explore and return with photos.

We have some distinctly different types of diving in our world.

 

[stairman]

I personally feel cavediving with all the training and redundant gear is safer than diving in the ocean. To get bored with the caves would be like getting bored with the wife. I always see things I havent seen before and familiar formations are like old friends. As for life, its there just not as abundant but geology is the definate draw, as well as the fresh water and freedom I feel. Were all divers here but its a fairly broad spectrum of specific likes.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I realize there are those that love cave diving. I have a pal that loves is. BUT, he said he dislikes two things about cave diving. His feeling is that the scenery never changes. He says no matter how deep he goes it looks the same to him. I imagine there are those that see it differently.

He said he also dislikes that there is practically no life in the caves and tunnels in comparison to the open ocean.

For me personally I do not like what I feel is high risk. Some people thrive on it. I like having a clear shot to the surface.

I do feel the photos of the huge caverns with clear water are beautiful and I respect those that made the dive in order to explore and return with photos.

We have some distinctly different types of diving in our world.

Lee, I would ask your buddy what he is doing there if he thinks it never changes. Thats one thng we love about caves is that it changes every few feet. He really might want to reconsider cave diving. Missing the forrest for the trees. I like your post, good to know when someone knows whats for them and not for them.

To get back on topic to the OP. Yeah cave diving s great, right up until the phone rings and someone you know has died in one. Everybody considering t better be ok with that. Sooner or later that is a reality.