Recognizing Potential Problems

[Van Isle]

It's never a bad idea to call to call a dive. I'm really new, but I have yet to hear an amazing dive story that goes, "so everything was pear-shaped and didn't feel right at all...mistake after mistake...anyways we pushed through and it was awesome! Glad we did it."

VI

 

[Deefstes]

It seems I'm in a minority here (if not the only one) who thinks that you might have overreacted. That said, I'm not saying you should have acted differently, if all ended well and your buddy was happy in the end, then kudos to you.

The point I want to raise though is this; Your buddy is ultimately responsible for his/her own safety. You're not making any mention of how deep the dive was but if you had planned on a BT of 40min I'm assuming it wasn't to the sort of depth where you'd have reason to believe that your buddy's judgement was impaired.

So, if your buddy tells you that he/she's OK, why call the dive? Your buddy might not be having the greatest dive ever but would he/she really prefer to end it prematurely? He's the one with the issue, let him make the call on whether or not to thumb the dive.

Like I said though, I'm not berating you for the decision you made, I'm just saying that I would probably have done it differently. It's great to have a regular buddy who's habits and mannerisms you get to be familiar with. I'm fortunate to also have a regular buddy (my wife) but our agreement is that I won't make decisions on her behalf unless I've got good reason to believe that her judgment is impaired. We also have an agreement that she will not continue a dive because she feels "obligated" towards me or anyone else. The same goes for me as well.

This means I know that she will thumb a dive if anything's wrong, meaning I don't have to thumb a dive on her behalf because I think something is wrong.

 

[seaducer]

The point I want to raise though is this; Your buddy is ultimately responsible for his/her own safety.

Absolutely true, but perhaps this is a grey area in a court of law?

You're not making any mention of how deep the dive was but if you had planned on a BT of 40min I'm assuming it wasn't to the sort of depth where you'd have reason to believe that your buddy's judgement was impaired.

Doesn't matter how deep. Deep enough to drown in is very shallow.

So, if your buddy tells you that he/she's OK, why call the dive? Your buddy might not be having the greatest dive ever but would he/she really prefer to end it prematurely? He's the one with the issue, let him make the call on whether or not to thumb the dive.

You call it because he/she won't and is obviously having many issues. Leaky mask should not be an issue, but apparently it was. This may just be a comfort thing. My mask leaks constantly because I prefer a loose strap, I clear it all the time and it is never an issue, though some people are so preoccupied with a leaky mask they forget just about everything else. And cramps should never be taken lightly, they can affect your ability to swim.

Last but not least, when you are buddy diving, their problems ARE your problems, and if you think the problems are getting to be too many, or too large, better to call the dive while everyone is ok than to attempt to perform a rescue after the fact.

Like I said though, I'm not berating you for the decision you made, I'm just saying that I would probably have done it differently. It's great to have a regular buddy who's habits and mannerisms you get to be familiar with.

That is a true value of this board. You can read about someone else's style, decisions etc. and decide if this is something you want to emulate.

I'm fortunate to also have a regular buddy (my wife) but our agreement is that I won't make decisions on her behalf unless I've got good reason to believe that her judgment is impaired. We also have an agreement that she will not continue a dive because she feels "obligated" towards me or anyone else. The same goes for me as well.

If you guys are a true buddy team, you are obligated to call a dive on someone else's behalf, largely because they may not. Many people have trouble evaluating whether their discomfort is really warranted. This honestly should never happen. Diving is supposed to be fun, and if you are not having any, then call it. Also remember, it is not one large problem that shows up in the DAN report, it is the sum of many small ones.

This means I know that she will thumb a dive if anything's wrong, meaning I don't have to thumb a dive on her behalf because I think something is wrong.

Under ideal circumstances, but never all the time. Remember, the best rescue is the one not needed.

And also, it is better to thumb a dive and apologize, than to fill out the accident report and delivery THAT apology.

I do not think the OP over reacted at all. He wasn't comfortable with the situation, and did the correct thing.

 

[brucet]

Good call on "calling the dive". I can remember a situation of mine several years ago in Key Largo. I had trouble keeping my masked cleared. I pressed on, kept clearing as needed. The dive was ok, except for the irritation of the mask. Afterwards however, I ended up at dinner with my friend eating practically blind, as the salt had irritated my eyes so much, they were swollen almost completely shut. Wish that one would have been called.

 

[Diver0001]

... At this point I just had a bad feeling about the dive.

... So I gave the signal to ascend to our safety stop at 15ft.

That's all we need do know. Getting alarm bells is an excellent reason to call the dive. Well done!

R..

 

[JohnB47]

You always have the right to call or turn a dive, at any time, for any reason. Of course, if you find that you are calling 90% of them, you need to figure out what the problem is.

 

[Walter]

Started out with a pretty long surface swim. No problems there. Relax for a bit before beginning descent.

Relaxing on the surface before beginning a descent indicates a lack of comfort underwater. Your descent should be a relaxing process.

As we begin our descent, my buddy starts having problems with a leaky mask. A couple quick adjustments to the mask at the surface and we start heading down.

Why was it felt necessary to make adjustments to the mask at the surface? If your buddy is comfortable with no mask breathing, adjustments could easily be made on descent. If your buddy is not comfortable with no mask breathing, he needs to practice this important skill until he is.

Within a minute I notice my buddy is having a problem with the mask leaking again, but nothing major.

What do you mean by problem? Is it leaking and he's easily dealing with the leak or is he in some way uncomfortable?

I'm very familiar with this buddy and I just got the feeling that something wasn't right. I know where this buddy likes to be in the water compared to me and every time I looked over they were vertical in the water and either behind me in respect to the direction we were going or foot below or above me depth wise. These are all things out of character on our dives together. So I made it a point to keep checking that everything was OK. Then the buddy started cramping up. Buddy would remove one and then get another and remove again. Each time I got the OK sign. At this point I just had a bad feeling about the dive.

Whenever you have a bad feeling about a dive, even if you don't know why, it's time to abort.

Did I wait too long to call the dive?

Maybe, maybe not. Think about it, only you can know the answer. You may want to react sooner in the future, but this dive ended well, so don't worry about it. You did fine.

Should I have recognized the out of character body language in my buddy sooner?

Maybe.

Did I overreact to the situation given that my buddy didn't feel the need to call the dive?

No. It's better to be on the surface wishing you were underwater than to be underwater wishing you were at the surface.

So, if your buddy tells you that he/she's OK, why call the dive?

Because he had a bad feeling about the dive. Whenever you have a bad feeling about a dive, even if you don't know why, it's time to abort. If more people followed that simple rule, there would be fewer diving deaths.

 

[Sas]

So, if your buddy tells you that he/she's OK, why call the dive? Your buddy might not be having the greatest dive ever but would he/she really prefer to end it prematurely? He's the one with the issue, let him make the call on whether or not to thumb the dive.

I think people will often say they are Ok when they are not. If their body language does not match their ok then time to abort imho or to stop completely and have a talk (hand signs, slate whatever). If I am uncomfortable for whatever reason on a dive I won't say I am ok, I will tell them the equivalent 'hey let's chill out for a few minutes and see what happens' (depending on the circumstances a stop sign or perhaps a slow down signal, and perhaps a trouble and point to what is bothering me).

Sometimes it is real hard for people to end a dive for their buddy. I know the worst I've felt for calling a dive was on a boat dive that we'd paid good money for, I don't get to dive the wreck often and we'd battled summer holiday traffic super early in the morning to get there, and then there is the gas costs. Before the dive I had a first stage o-ring issue (fixed), constantly freeflowing reg (fixed), leaking inflator hose (fixed) (note: I had borrowed regs...) and was all good to go and jumped in the water only to have my HP hose fail. I had a spare and could have swapped it but I was just annoyed and frustrated by all the other failures I didn't want to be doing a 40m decompression dive in that frame of mind. It was a hard call, but it shouldn't have been as I clearly was not happy with my gear. Lucky my buddy was totally understanding about the whole thing but still I felt bad.

Some people don't get to dive that often and then if you have a buddy there is a big pressure to dive, but I think if you ever feel off about things it is better to end the dive. The times when I have felt off on a dive but not called it have resulted in dealing with two OOA buddies (not at the same time!) and a few other incidents. Nothing has ever ended up with someone getting hurt but it could happen. They said they were ok but I knew something was up. These days because I take more notice early on I've actually ended a few dives with buddies I am sure would have had issues (low gas/ooa/panicky) if I had not. I am sure I will still get this wrong, but experience helps a lot.

I think I get what you are saying though and there are people I don't like to dive with as they end dives at the drop of a hat for reasons I personally would find silly. It's not silly to them and I would never complain about them doing this or force them to keep diving or whatever, but generally I prefer people who are not likely to call dives for things like crappy viz, surge or the cold or after half an hour because they are bored.

 

[Deefstes]

Absolutely true, but perhaps this is a grey area in a court of law?

Uhm, I'm not sure how a court of law fits in with this scenario. Are you suggesting that, had the OP not called the dive and his buddy died, he'd have to convince a court of law of him not being culpable?

Doesn't matter how deep. Deep enough to drown in is very shallow.

You can drown in a duck pond, but that's not the point I was getting at. I made no reference to the depth suggesting that deeper dives offer a greater risk to drowning. I was saying that on a deeper dive, one might have more reason to suspect that your buddy is not mentally acknowledging his/her distress due to narcosis. At a shallow depth, even though we all know that you can still drown in it, at least he'd have little reason to suspect serious narcosis and consequent impaired judgment.

You call it because he/she won't and is obviously having many issues.

On a dive not long ago I finned funny because I had knocked my right thigh on the boat before the dive. My wife didn't know this and asked me if I was OK and if I wanted to terminate the dive. I replied that I was OK and that I did not want to terminate the dive. I'd have been seriously miffed if she decided to call the dive on my behalf because I was obviously having issues. I know I'm swimming funny, I know why I'm swimming funny and I know that I'm fine to complete the dive, I don't need someone else to decide for me whether or not I'm fine.

And cramps should never be taken lightly, they can affect your ability to swim.

Fair point.

If you guys are a true buddy team, you are obligated to call a dive on someone else's behalf, largely because they may not.

Then we're probably not a true buddy team but I still trust that my wife will call a dive when she's not comfortable and I'm glad that she trusts me to do the same. Why should she be "obligated" to call a dive on my behalf just because I'm finning differently than usual? I would like to believe that her obligation is rather to ask me if I'm fine and to ask whether I want to abort the dive. If I'm clearly not narced out of my skull, why shouldn't that be good enough for her? Obviously I know why I'm finning funnily and she doesn't. Allow me to make that call then please.

I do not think the OP over reacted at all. He wasn't comfortable with the situation, and did the correct thing.

OK, I concede, "overreacted" is perhaps a strong word. But to be fair, I made it clear that I was not telling him he should have done things differently and I was not berating him. I simply wanted to add another perspective which anyone is free to ignore if they don't agree.

 

[Rick Inman]

Yeah, I'm also one of those who agree that, anyone can call any dive for any reason at any time. No questions asked. Anyone who gives me crap about calling a dive, or peer pressure, or does the macho thing, does not sound like the kind of diver that would enjoy diving with me in the future.

I enjoy team diving most, and the team must be in agreement to continue a dive, regardless of who is having the issue. If my buddy thinks I look a little off and calls the dive for me, I'm all good with that. Call it for any reason. Hey, I've done a bunch of dives and I'll do a bunch more and I'm not out to set any time records, so if a team member wants to go back, we go back.

But I'll also do more independent diving, if that is the plan before the dive begins (depending on the dive). Meaning, if a diver wants to continue the dive solo, or say one guy on a three man group (not a "team") wants to call the dive and return alone, I'm all good with that, too (although I'm so comfortable team diving that I would probably just go back with them anyway).

I've had deep dives planned, with a bunch of mixing done days before, lots of planning, money spent on trimix gasses, long drives, launching a boat and a long run to the site, just to have a buddy call the dive on descent for no apparent reason except he felt a bit off. And maybe I'm odd (maybe??), but I had a blast that day, too, hanging with my buddies, out on the water on a beautiful day.

So I say, call a dive anytime for any reason. No problem. Then we can talk about it after the dive over coffee and maybe learn something good.