Split from: Are you AFRAID to Post?

[The Chairman]

Split from http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/new-divers-those-considering-diving/332928-you-afraid-post.html



Call him on it? I simply asked him if that was the case. He said "no" and I accepted his answer. The whole point of forums is to communicate... if you feel slighted, ask for clarification. If you don't understand something... ask for clarification. If you think someone has it out for you... ASK THEM. I very rarely call people out on anything. However, I am a bit more terse with mean people or POV warriors. I don't consider mpetryk as either of those.

And here is yet another lesson for me: When you feel slighted or offended, SAY SO. Call them on it! If they didn't mean to offend they will quickly apologize.

 

[Walter]

Drop the POV Warrior stuff.

I agree completely. Calling people names like "POV Warrior" is counter productive.

 

[The Chairman]

I agree completely. Calling people names like "POV Warrior" is counter productive.

A little close to home, eh Wally? As long as people keep attacking training agencies and those who don't dive like them, the term will continue to live.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

A little close to home, eh Wally? As long as people keep attacking training agencies and those who don't dive like them, the term will continue to live.

... which only encourages others to consider perjorative terms an acceptable way to address those with whom they disagree.

I agree with Walter ... as the Chairman of the Board, you need to set a better example.

In some sense, we're all "POV Warriors" ... if we weren't, we wouldn't be here ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

I've learned far more over the years by putting my own thinking up for scrutiny than I have by writing about things I'm absolutely sure about.

By the same token, I've probably learned more from people with whom I don't agree. I remember having a long PM discussion with cerich, as the result of something he posted about valve shutdowns. After discussing the pros and cons of our respective approaches, I felt I understood the whole issue far better (although I didn't change my mind).

In many things in diving, there are different approaches. If you understand the rationale for all of them, you can be sure you are making an educated choice. But the only way to understand them is to let people disagree with you . . . and then listen to them.

 

[Walter]

A little close to home, eh Wally?

Not really, it's just that I believe it violates ScubaBoard's TOS.

Terms of Service (ToS)
This is a friendly forum based on mutual respect......insulting or mean spirited language is simply not allowed here........there is never a reason to resort to personal attacks.

As long as people keep attacking training agencies and those who don't dive like them, the term will continue to live.

Attacking training agencies? I've not seen that. I have seen people express disagreement with the standards of some training agencies.

Attacking people who don't dive like them? I haven't seen that in years. There was once a little of that going on between the DIR and the antiDIR crowds, but that's long gone now.

 

[The Chairman]

... which only encourages others to consider perjorative terms

I don't see it as a pejorative. We have an assortment of Dog Pilers, POV Warriors, PADI Bashers and just plain meanies who are quick to subtly slam others up until their behavior is pointed out. Then it's time for them to call out the whaaambulance since they somehow feel accosted for having their behavior identified as such. They are the reason this thread even exists! I have had people actually apologize to me for being trained by PADI. Why? The POV Warriors have told us over and over how bad PADI standards are. There are many people who won't post because they don't feel that they belong to the "in crowd" of those who think that there are only a few good Scuba Instructors in the entire world.

Why sweep a problem under the rug and act like it does not exist? We have created special zones to keep these types of people under control and STILL they try to spread their Gospel POV. Rather than take umbrage at the term, you should be disgusted at how POV Warriors ruin the experience and limit the learning for a LOT of people. To your credit, I see you trying to educate them and I have also seen you modify your message of instructional doom and gloom. The same can be said for Walter and a few others.

If someone calls you a POV Warrior, you can do one of two things...

1. Be insulted. Hey, it's the easy way out.
2. Look within and try to understand why they called you that.

You can be sure that I don't use that term to try and win a point or an argument. I certainly don't use it to endear me to others. I use it only when I see it. Make no doubt about it: I have lost advertisers over the Warriors because they see our approach as systemic and even a part of our cyber culture. I'm not worried much about the money aspect... but I do worry about the message we convey to the world. ScubaBoard has a bad rep for being anti PADI and pro DIR. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are Pro Diving... in whatever form that takes us.

 

[Randy43068]

SB was actually pretty strongly anti BP/W and DIR a few years ago. Perhaps the animosity runs in cycles?

Good discussion by the way. However, I have to ask ( don't have time for research ) what's a "POV Warrior?"

I don't see it as a pejorative. We have an assortment of Dog Pilers, POV Warriors, PADI Bashers and just plain meanies who are quick to subtly slam others up until their behavior is pointed out. Then it's time for them to call out the whaaambulance since they somehow feel accosted for having their behavior identified as such. They are the reason this thread even exists! I have had people actually apologize to me for being trained by PADI. Why? The POV Warriors have told us over and over how bad PADI standards are. There are many people who won't post because they don't feel that they belong to the "in crowd" of those who think that there are only a few good Scuba Instructors in the entire world.

Why sweep a problem under the rug and act like it does not exist? We have created special zones to keep these types of people under control and STILL they try to spread their Gospel POV. Rather than take umbrage at the term, you should be disgusted at how POV Warriors ruin the experience and limit the learning for a LOT of people. To your credit, I see you trying to educate them and I have also seen you modify your message of instructional doom and gloom. The same can be said for Walter and a few others.

If someone calls you a POV Warrior, you can do one of two things...

1. Be insulted. Hey, it's the easy way out.
2. Look within and try to understand why they called you that.

You can be sure that I don't use that term to try and win a point or an argument. I certainly don't use it to endear me to others. I use it only when I see it. Make no doubt about it: I have lost advertisers over the Warriors because they see our approach as systemic and even a part of our cyber culture. I'm not worried much about the money aspect... but I do worry about the message we convey to the world. ScubaBoard has a bad rep for being anti PADI and pro DIR. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are Pro Diving... in whatever form that takes us.

 

[The Chairman]

Not really, it's just that I believe it violates ScubaBoard's TOS.

Terms of Service (ToS)
This is a friendly forum based on mutual respect......insulting or mean spirited language is simply not allowed here........there is never a reason to resort to personal attacks.

How is it insulting? It's not a epithet: it's a label. A label given to those who show little to no respect for the opinions of others. It's not a personal attack, but rather an observation of how someone continually promotes their POV with little regard to others.

Attacking training agencies? I've not seen that.

Denial: not just another river in Egypt! You simply can't begin to resolve a problem until you have identified it.

 

[Walter]

If someone calls you a POV Warrior, you can do one of two things...

Be insulted. Hey, it's the easy way out.
Look within and try to understand why they called you that.

I thought that was why the "Report Post" button was there.

Seriously, if "someone" calls you a "POV Warrior" that someone would be you, Pete. You're the only person I've seen use the term. When you use it, it is to attack people with whom you disagree. When you use it, you are doing the very thing you claim they are doing.