The Philosophy of Diver Training

[Walter]

I see is a bunch of curmudgeons complaining about how they had to walk to school up-hill in the snow both ways when they were young.

Ah, the old, "in my day, we were tough" argument. The only problem with that is it doesn't hold up when you look at the facts. The more comprehensive approach to learning to dive does take longer, but it's not harder, it easier. In fact, it's much easier. I've taught people to diving using that method who had given up using the faster, typical approach. They thought learning to dive was too hard for them. It wasn't.

In my own case, I wasn't a tough guy, water person who could grit my teeth and bull through the old fashioned military approach to diving. I had trouble learning to dive. Had I gone through today's typical class, I would not have made it. I would have washed out. Luckily, my instructor used a method of teaching diving that was rare then and even rarer now which made it much easier for me to learn to dive.

 

[msg]

Diving is like so many other things in life. It is what you make of it.
1. You can get a drivers license, but can you drive a tractor trailer?
2. You can buy a paint brush, but can you paint (like a professional)?
3. You can buy a fishing rod, but are you a fisherman?
4. You can buy a rifle, but can shoot like a Marine Sniper?
5. Etc., etc.

My point is that you can get the basics anywhere, but you really need to continue in the education of diving. Only through diving often, will you gain the confidence that is needed to be an asset to your diving buddy.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Although I would disagree, you are entitled to your opinion. The original questions have nothing to do with me, or what I think. I simply solicited the opinions of others.

Were this type a thread a rare event for you, then I'd accept your claim as stated. It's not. You have an agenda. Being polite about the presentation makes it no less about you.

Ah, the old, "in my day, we were tough" argument. The only problem with that is it doesn't hold up when you look at the facts. The more comprehensive approach to learning to dive does take longer, but it's not harder, it easier. In fact, it's much easier. I've taught people to diving using that method who had given up using the faster, typical approach. They thought learning to dive was too hard for them. It wasn't.

It's not what the market wants.

The question as asked was if the current philosophy is "good."

And frankly, that sort of value question is immaterial. The current prevailing philosophy meets the market demand better than any competing method, if it did not, it would not be leading the market.

Your method, however fond you are of it, is failed as it pertains to actually being able to compete in the market space.

 

[Chris12day]

I am not an expert...I am a new diver, only 67 dives (in the last three years (currently 47 years old)). A resort diver would consider me a professional.....:shocked2:

I understand the market demand for resort diving. They are resort divers. They need and want a DM with them.

I think the disconnect comes when a resort diver is allowed to go back, to back to back while a resort and obtain their OW, AOW, and Nitrox. Then they believe they are capable of doing anything....cave....cold water...etc. "Look at all my badges".....But have dived ionly n 75 F water.

I believe that I need additional training beside my own OW, AOW, and Nitrox classes. I will begin my book work next week for my Rescue Diver. Why? Because I believe I need to be completely independent of others. I can not rely on an insta-buddy who has no ideal how much air they have or how much air they need to safely complete their dive.

I also just received, today, my 19 cf pony. I need to learn how to use it safely, before I can rely upon it as a redundant air source.

Sorry for being long winded...Short answer. Advanced C cards should be earned, not purchased.

Happy Diving

 

[Web Monkey]

You have not come to diving in today's world, which is how I read the question.

Had your exposure to diving started in 2001, how would you view the question?

As a diver who dives regularly and who has gone well beyond OW, but who came to diving well into middle age and specifically to take a couple of dives on vacation, the only thing I see is a bunch of curmudgeons complaining about how they had to walk to school up-hill in the snow both ways when they were young.

And frankly, since you start a thread along these lines every other day it seems, you certainly are trying to sell your position. You're just soft-balling it.

Hmm. I started diving in 2001.

Although my class didn't include carrying an iron cauldron of hot coals or walking on a rice-paper mat leaving no trace of my passage, or snatching a pebble from anybody's hand, it did take close to 14 weeks (1 class/week) because after the first 8 weeks, I still wasn't really ready for the Open Water dives.

I learned all sorts of things that are supposed to be in every OW class but are just touched on, like proper weighting, how to get back on a boat without getting hurt, how to stay horizontal, not kick up the bottom, not touch anything, how to stay with my buddy and how to not run out of gas.

Now 9 years later, I'm teaching the same class. It's not rocket science, and it's actually almost all covered right in the standard OW curriculum. The trick is that you need to time to discuss it, demonstrate the skills, go over concepts, let the students practice the skills until they're easily repeatable and not push anybody out the door until both the student and instructor are happy.

In fact, not only isn't this "walking up hill both ways" it's actually much easier and less stressful for both, than the faster version that produces divers that need a DM.

Terry

 

[Saltwater Junky]

I was cert'd in 2006 and my instructor stressed that we had the basics to dive safely. He didn't say that we cert'd to dive safely with a DM or another instructor. In fact, after completing the necessary paperwork he told us that we were welcomed to continue diving that day, but he was going home. Now, he did stress to continue our education to become more proficient with our skills and to dive within our abilities.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I also started in 2001. My class was four weeks ... 8 hours per week ... four in the class, four in the pool. I'm no "natural" at diving ... I struggled for every bit of it. But it was well-paced for us "slo-mo" types, and I came out of it pretty comfortable.

As for the vacation diver ... I'm not so sure that's a new thing. Cheng and I took our first dive vacation to Belize in August 2001. On that trip we shared a boat with another couple who had been diving since 1988 ... and they'd never done a dive without a divemaster. When they found out that we dive on our own in Puget Sound (in COLD water, no less) they were aghast! The lady asked us "Isn't that DANGEROUS?"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[caseybird]

This is a ridiculous, "when did you stop beating your wife" poll. What answer do you expect on SB?

 

[vladimir]

This is a ridiculous, "when did you stop beating your wife" poll. What answer do you expect on SB?

Maybe a little balance might have been achieved with:

Dive training should be accessible to students who can only devote $300 and a long weekend.

in lieu of:

Divers should be trained to be dependent on a DM/Instructor.

 

[TMHeimer]

If I had the ability to change one thing about today's basic open water course it would be to make the class a little longer so as to incorporate some rescue skills in the class. I think everyone diving should be able to assist in an emergency or at the very least not be totally clueless as to what to do if their help is needed.

After I was certified back in 91, my buddy who took the class with me and I went to the Florida springs within two weeks and started diving on our own and I never gave diving without an instructor a second thought. We both felt totally prepared to dive on our own. Now we were rookies at diving no doubt and had a lot to learn about refining the skills we had learned in class but I never felt as if I wasn't prepared.

I think it's sad that so many people who are getting certified don't feel comfortable diving on their own and won't go without a DM or instructor with them. I don't think those people got their monies worth when they were trained. It's nothing wrong with feeling a little nervous or anxious the first times you dive on your own. That's probably to be expected. But it doesn't say much about the quality of their instruction if someone feels they are not ready to do so.

I agree with you on every point. Especially about rescue skills (at least basic ones) being in the OW course. I, too was a "confident" newbie with my newbie buddy. I learned in Rescue that I shouldn't have been so confident back then without those skills. And, as you say, it's OK to be a little nervous about , say, your first dives 60 feet or below. I was a bit nervous, and glad to be with a DM or experienced diver then.