Victims' Names in Accidents forum a problem; "No Condolences" rule is Not Working

[The Chairman]

I failed to mention this earlier, but we are now discussing this topic among the Advisors as well as the Moderators. The first is all about policy and the second is about enforcing that policy. The rules have already changed for that forum, and they might change even more as our discussions proceed.

To that end, I would love to hear other ideas and how the rest of ScubaBoard feels about this issue. We have never operated in a social vacuum, and I don't mean to start that now. There are no wrong views here: only your views. The more input provided means a more educated decision for staff.

 

[bleeb]

What if we made the "Accidents & Incidents" thread a sub-forum that you "opt into," like "The Pub" is a subforum of "Surface Interval?"

Why? It's diving related.

I thought this might make the analysis threads less easy to "stumble upon" by family members. Not sure it would accomplish that, though.

It wouldn't guarantee it, but it would make it statistically much less likely, since search engines wouldn't be linking the thread to one of the common search terms for the incident.

Now for my opinion (you asked : Both removing names and making the forum opt-in may be nice to try to protect people from being even more upset than they may already be, but to a considerable extent it's trying to protect them from themselves. They came looking for information. While it's important to show them consideration for their grief by being careful about how we say things, one of the more active ways in which we can immediately support them is by trying to provide them with as much information as possible.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Well you can count on condolences being posted, mine including maybe. Not possible, but it'd be nice if a corresponding Passing thread was opened automatically with any death A&I thread and the link posted in post #1.

Many threads in A&I start out with an unknown conclusion (i.e. diver missing etc.). In that case obviously it would be in bad taste to start a "Passings" thread.You also cannot really start a Passing's thread until you know who passed. Again, I see a pattern which I can personally live with in the condolences. If they get out of control, a thread could always be moderated to move them. I do believe changing things here would likely not prove to be of any benefit at all IMO.

 

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

I thought this might make the analysis threads less easy to "stumble upon" by family members. Not sure it would accomplish that, though.

I understand where you are coming from but......................family is looking for closure, a reason why it happened, someone or something to blame, and eventually the truth if it can be found.

Most of the time, family members know everything may not be rosy, but they want to know something, good, bad or otherwise. Like I said before, someone making completely unfeeling and crass statements that do nothing, should be addressed.

I just think that we (SB forum members), unknowingly, don't give family members the credit they deserve. They already know a loved one has died (the worst outcome). Now they would like to find some answers if they are available. Not knowing is the worst thing after a major incident of any kind. If nothing else, the family will see that we are also trying to make sense of what has happened as it could have been "me". I truly believe this does more than we will ever know, for those that have lost someone, until the day that we are that family member.

 

[The Chairman]

Well you can count on condolences being posted, mine including maybe. Not possible, but it'd be nice if a corresponding Passing thread was opened automatically with any death A&I thread and the link posted in post #1.

You know Don, I was thinking the very same thing. There is no module for this that I know of and we are a unique community in that we want to know WHY someone died in addition to giving them a fond farewell. It would be nice if the person posting the death would create another thread in Passings for the time being.

 

[HowardE]

How about a disclaimer like this that appears on every A&I post...?

No Condolences Allowed Here Please; Click Passings - ScubaBoard
​

Except maybe the target after the hyperlink link would be to a closed thread on Passings that explains in detail why Condolences are not allowed in A&I, but are encouraged there...?

I say no to disclaimers.

 

[cruiser]

It would also make ScubaBoard less easy to stumble upon by others as well. I appreciate the sentiment, but this is a vital topic for Scuba Diving.

I agree, A&I is a vital topic, and the more divers (not necessarily family) who read it, the better.

However, I feel that condolences in the A&I threads are what attracts grieving family to it in the first place.

F'rinstance, say I'm not a diver and I'm searching the net for info on a good friend who just died in a diving accident. I find a nice condolence and forward the link to the family, knowing they would appreciate the heart-warming sentiment at this very tragic time in their lives. Trouble is, the condolence is smack dab in the middle of an A&I thread. So they start reading the adjacent posts where we're analyzing, discussing, hypothesizing about the fatality. This is something the family generally might find hurtful in their heightened emotional state.

 

[The Chairman]

I say no.

You're such a party pooper!

 

[bleeb]

Again, I see a pattern which I can personally live with in the condolences. If they get out of control, a thread could always be moderated to move them.

Maybe an additional measure to help keep things under control is for someone to post a gentle reminder when too many of them start appearing (which has occasionally happened informally in the past). Given the large number of non-regulars and non-SB-members, it might be better coming from someone official like a Mod or Staff. A boilerplate reminder would also be much less work than moving a whole bunch of posts.

 

[The Chairman]

I find a nice condolence and forward the link to the family, knowing they would appreciate the heart-warming sentiment at this very tragic time in their lives. Trouble is, the condolence is smack dab in the middle of an A&I thread.

Great points. Also, condolences makes the thread far more feeling oriented all the while we are trying to be a tad dispassionate and detached from the diver in order to make logical and not emotional conclusions.