Doubles diving with 2 wings

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paddler3d

Guest
Messages
1,022
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Location
Baltimore, MD
# of dives
200 - 499
My hopes for getting a dry suit this year have been dashed.

I'd still like to double up my HP100's.

Currently I dive a SS BP/W combo with a hog harness.

I have my 300bar manifold and I have a DR Classic Wing.

I'd like to get an AL back plate and I need to get the bands.

Since I'm diving wet, I'll need dual bladders.

I'd love to get a new wing that has dual bladders, but they are not cheap.

I've been cruising e-Bay, classifieds, and the used section of my LDS looking for another DR Classic Wing. They do exist.

Does anyone out there have any feedback on diving with two wings? One as primary and one as backup.
 
Call Cave Excursions East for a cheap Dive Rite wing, or Cave Adventurers for a cheap Oxycheq wing.

...or just wait for the appropriate gear for the dives you want to do. But if you're in a huge rush to dive doubles, the 2 shops listed above are about as cheap as you're going to find.
 
Diving with 2 wings isn't uncommon, although its not real common either. You're a bit less streamlined with that configuration, but it works. I've done it many times and know several others that have. As soon as I could though, I got a dual bladder DR Classic wing.
 
consider bringing an smb instead of getting another wing.
 
Used drysuit not an option???

I guess it is always an option. The real choice is a live aboard cruise next July, or drysuit. The live aboard is literally with 9 other friends. That alone is a pretty good lure.

When I go dry I've come to realize that I'm going to get a suit custom made. I'm rather tall in the torso. I'm 6', with a 30" inseam and a wingspan for 6'4", and I weigh in around 175-180#'s. No jokes please. Climbing buddies used that laugh that I have a positive ape index. My semi dry is a nightmare because of my torso length. Any Large drysuit I try is real hard to get into and when I do, I've got enough room around the mid section I could fit a midget in there.

I do carry a SMB.

I'd love to get the Oxychecq double bladder wing, but it was half the price of a dry suit! Blew my mind.

Then it came down to looking at what I have.
 
When I go dry I've come to realize that I'm going to get a suit custom made. I'm rather tall in the torso. I'm 6', with a 30" inseam and a wingspan for 6'4", and I weigh in around 175-180#'s. No jokes please. Climbing buddies used that laugh that I have a positive ape index. My semi dry is a nightmare because of my torso length. Any Large drysuit I try is real hard to get into and when I do, I've got enough room around the mid section I could fit a midget in there.

Have you looked at any with telescoping torso?
 
Here is my take on the whole no steel tanks with a wet suit thing:

How many BC's have you seen with a 100% loss of air?

I have seen a few loose air 100% because the hose came unscrewed, the solution was to screw it back on or have your buddy do it. Personally, I have had a dump valve spring go, and came up no problem by keeping an attitude in the water to keep that valve low (on my side). Both of these should (and for me are now) a maintenance check pre-dive. I have also punctured a wing now and then, but with a good quality BC cover and bag is very hard to slice open. A puncture will bleed air, but not to any large amount and can controlled by oral power inflator additions.

The worse BC failure would be a torn inflator hose or attachment mount, and I have never seen one of those. In open water, a bag to the surface or going up an up line/anchor line is an easy way out. But, deep in a cave with a long horizontal distance to cover you might be into some deep dodo.

As for BC's getting a slice, I have never seen a slice, but I have seen cuts caused by a pinch. I had a Diverite Classic where the BC was on a set of tanks which were put into a van laying down and then other tanks were put on top. One of the top tanks had a pony attachment band that made the top of a pinch between it and the 72. The result was a 1" pinch which I did not notice till two or three dives later when it was pointed out to me by another diver on a deco hang. The pinch was low enough that it just was not a bother in most positions. The tanks I was using at the time were HP 100's and the suit I had on was a long sleaved 3mm Top with painters pants - North Carolina wreck diving in August, the water with top temps around 80F.

What I do now is that the end of each dive day when I rinse off the BC it get blown up with the power inflator till at least one of the dump valves lets go, Then rinsed off, dried, deflated, and stored. Then just before a dive and after the rig is assembled, the BC is checked to make sure the hoses and valves are tight and blown up and checked for air hold and valve operation.

My favorite tanks for dives at depths of 60-110 are 1960s/70s twin steel 72's. By 500 psi they just about float. So, its not all steel tanks, it is which steel tanks.


Now, here is Joel Silverstines take on the subject:

B A L A N C E ..... balance.

Much of the "don't dive steel with wetsuits" information came out of South Florida in the mid 1990s when DIR / GUE / WKPP programs were being created. Much of this had to do with diving PST 104s with 3MM wet suits .... that in and of itself is a big ole problem larger than we have room to argue over. Since they were not going to change steel tanks aluminum was the logical choice.

Steel cylinders have been in use with wetsuits much longer than aluminum cylinders have been. Go back to the beginning before alum cylinders were made for scuba.

Different steel cylinders have different buoyancy characteristics. Some are rock heavy, some are light as a feather (figurately speaking) 7, 7.25, 8" cylinders all are different and displace different amounts of water. And each diver is different in displacement as well.

Remember that a BC / Wing is not an elevator it is a "compensator" it is to compensate for the decrease in thickness of an exposure suit and the compression of the air in the wing and lungs as one goes deeper. In an ideal world all you really need is enough lift to make you 1 lbs positive and you can then swim up. But the real world does not work that way and we have to sometimes overcompensate for stability with additional ballast for control.

My favorite cylinder with a 5mm wet suit in fresh water is a Faber 95. With a 3mm a Faber 85. I can glide -- move to salt water and I will add a little weight to compensate for the salt water.

For doubles it gets a little more involved because of the weight of the bands and manifolds but still manageable.

I have found that Faber LP steel cylinders have a cleaner buoyancy swing than the X cylinders have. And when not overfilled they balance out very nicely with wet suits.

Aluminums tend to be a bit floaty and will require 8 lbs of neutralization ballast to be added for just the cylinders.

Assuming the balance of the rig can be created and, we know it can the big question comes down to this.

"What is the probability that a dive wing will fail and provide zero lift?"

Since 1989 when I started to dive with wings. I have had 3 wings provide some problems in

Wing 1. Dive Rite Classic wing - 1800 dives on it developed pin hole leaks at the welding seam. (did not lose buoyancy - replaced cell)

Wing 2. Halcyon Single Wing - 20 dives on it snagged wing on piece of wreckage on the Rhone and got small hole. (Halcyon could not repair or replace - I threw it out)

Wing 3 Inflator cracked due to HP seat failure in regulator. Wing held air as hose was below the bubble level.

Dive equipment rarely fails. When it does more than 95% of the time it has to do with a maintenance issue which falls back to user issue.

Divers need to learn how to inspect equipment pre and post dive. This will lead to few if any failures. Care for equipment on boats is important as well. Keep your gear tidy. In your space and not all over the place and it will rarely if ever get damaged.

So to answer the OPs question. .... Yes you can dive steel tanks with a wet suit so long as the rig is balanced and you can swim it out should you have ZERO ability to inflate the wing. The balance is something that is based upon your size and needs and the needs of your team.

cheers
JDS
 
As has been mentioned before a total loss of the use of your wing is very unlikely. I would not be worried about a dual bladder wing and would suggest carrying a lift bag in the event of a total loss of your wing and an unbalanced rig that would not allow you to surface. When I first transitioned into doubles I bought a dual bladder wing and hated it. I have since replaced it with DR Classic EXP and couln't be happier. I dive double HP 119's. I hope this helps.
 
Are you dead set on 2 wings and or a dual bladder wing? For cave diving (while I don't cave dive) - I could see the logic, but in open water - there are other viable options, as have been mentioned.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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