PADI Medical Form

[Graf]

If an older man shows up to take his OWC and his Med Form questions are all marked NO, will the dive shop question that and force him to get a doctor's signoff?

Regardless to the answer to that, what Dr in his right mind is going to sign off on the
form and take the chance that the diver may have an accident and will come back at him with a lawsuit for big $$$, because the Dr said it was okay for him to dive?

Nowadays one can get sued just for farting in an elevator!

 

[apertyx]

I don't think there is any reason for a dive shop to question the medical form, unless they something visibly wrong that would give them cause. In Australia, I had to have a doctor sign off ANYWAY - testing my lungs, blood pressure, etc. and stating that I was fit to dive, in their medical opinion. You'll also have to sign acceptance of risk and liability forms, which pretty much state if you lied or if something happens to you because of a medical condition - that's your tough luck! With those forms in place, you'd have a tough time suing anyone, I would think.

 

[Standingbear56]

As stated above, unless there is a something wrong that the store personal can detect, the shop will generally not question the form. If you are not truthful on the form, the main person that can get hurt is you. A good lawyer will generally be able to clear the shop relatively fast if you supplied wrong information. (I'm NOT saying that you supplied any wrong information, but explaining why the forms are not generally questioned by most stores)
I've had many senior citizens in great health with no problems checked off on the medical form. I wish some of my younger students were in as good a shape.
Take care and enjoy your course.
George

 

[AggieDad]

The shop nor the instructor are (ususally) not trained medical personnel. They only have the form to go on and the liability release. If someone were to not disclose a potential problem, I would have to agree that a good lawyer would clear the instructor and shop very quickly.
With all that being said, and I do understand that these forms are written by lawyers for lawyers, I feel that some of the questions are a little less than honest. For instance...have you ever had surgery? Answer yes to the appendectomy thirty years ago and you must get a Dr.'s statement. The form leaves no room for common sense but I guess that bus left the station many years ago here. My main pet peeve and this is being addressed in the shop that I use, is not giving the form to the student until just before class with the statement "You need to fill this out and if you answer yes to any question then you cannot get into the water until you have a Dr.s clearance". To me, this is just telling the student to lie. Why did they come to you anyway? To dive and to now be told that you can't get in the water tonight if you answer yes...well a GOOD lawyer could cause the shop a lot of problem with that.

 

[don Francisco]

There are really two issues regarding these forms. The first is the form itself, which lists various conditions that might be issues when diving. Someone might not be aware that their problem, such as mild asthma might be a problem, so the form flags it and requires a medical consult to declare the person fit to dive. Shop personnel are not medical experts, and therefore defer to the pros.

Most doctors have no problem certifying people fit to dive if they are. Yes, they undertake a bit of risk of getting blamed for missing something, but that's par for the course in their practice, and they aren't offering a guarrantee, only giving their opinion based on a physical exam.

The second issue relating to the medical release is whether someone is actually fit to dive. Lot's of people have undiagnosed conditions, are out of shape, or have old & not fully healed injuries. The likelihood of these hidden problems goes up with age and other lifestyle factors such as smoking, so some agencies require a mediacl release based on age regardless of whether you list any problems. It isn't necessarily a legal or liability issue, it's a common sense safety issue.

BTW- Even if you've honestly answered no to every question, were young and healthy, or had a thorough exam and were declared fit, there are still no guarrantees. Lots of young healthy people are walking around with "time bomb" conditions, such as aneurisms or heart rhythm problems, which might be triggered by the stress of diving. The screening process only filters out known problems, for the rest, it's simply a matter of luck.

 

[rstofer]

Some shops have an age limit. Around here, if you are 45 or older, they want a doctor's release no matter what.

They're not hard to get.

When I took OW in Singapore ('88) I had to go to a specific diving physician and get an ear-nose-throat exam plus a chest x-ray. Everybody did... One guy slipped through the cracks and had an upper respiratory problem that he didn't disclose. After the first open water dive he came up coughing blood. I don't think the instructor EVER let anyone else slip through.

Richard

 

[Crowley]

We have a duty to ask if our students have medical conditions that might be a concern whilst diving. Sometimes a "Yes" on the medical can be discussed and actually negated. Usually it's a language issue. For example I had a foreign language DSD candidate yesterday and he answered "Yes" to a question which asks about "a history of knee problems following surgery" (don't quote me word for word) but it turns out he twisted his knee and was on crutches for a week when he was 5. No problems since, he just misinterpreted the question.

I'm sure people can see the wisdom in getting a diving medical if you're a little bit older than you used to be - not everything works as well as it used to and that can - in rare circumstances - cause problems. In fact it's probably wise for all divers to get medicals, although in most cases not necessary.

Some points raised - it's not a PADI form it's from the RSTC, a body to which most of the major recreatioinal training agencies subscribe - they set a miniumum standard for medical requirements and training standards.

Other posters are correct - sometimes physiological conditions that preclude a person from diving are not obvious until a person dives

Asthma is a no-no unless a doctor can prove that the particular form of asthma will not be a problem under water. There's not many cats in the ocean so if that is was triggers an asthma attack, it's not likely to be a problem diving. If a person gets asthma attacks after moderate excercise and/ or cold, then diving is not an activity they should purse.

Dive safe,

C.

 

[robint]

those medical forms are such a big issue in dive shops..... I have seen some dive shop personel actually tell people not to answer any questions YES unless they speak to them first. Then the dive shop clerk says "oh, that's no big deal, just mark NO". Wrong, wrong, wrong! The potential student must answer the form with true information and sign it. If they missunderstood the question, that is one thing. But to have dive shop clerk (she is married to an MD so she thinks she knows everything) tell people to lie on the form is wrong. ANY medication given by a doctor needs clearance, also. Yes, it is a hassle but it is safety for the diver and liability issue for the instructor.

Being married to an instructor, the liability issue sits heavy with me. I don't want someone writing NO on a form then having a medical issue that can affect MY life. My husband has certified people who have gotten medical waivers for previous heart attacks, back surgery, all types of medication..... but those folks were honest and got the medical waiver.

EXAMPLE: Several years ago, a woman with heart problems wanted to get certified HERE in our area. She went to one dive shop, they refused her without the medical waiver. So she went to another independent instructor and lied on the form. She answered all NOs. Her first OW dive here was her last day of life. She died from a heart attack. After years of investigation by the instructors side, and the police dept investigation, interviews with people who saw the dive and rescue, those who attempted to do CPR, etc...the instructor was finally cleared. It took years though. This instructor never recovered his business from this, he was so persecuted by the whole dive community for so long before the truth about the lies on the form came to light and no one has really forgiven him. I don't think he teaches anymore. The woman's family tried to sue everyone involved also but that went nowhere. It was ugly.... and all over the marking of NO on the form instead of getting a waiver from a doctor. (I doubt her dr would have given her one anyhow but maybe she would have realized it wasn't for her and given up.)

robin

 

[boulderjohn]

With all that being said, and I do understand that these forms are written by lawyers for lawyers, I feel that some of the questions are a little less than honest. For instance...have you ever had surgery? Answer yes to the appendectomy thirty years ago and you must get a Dr.'s statement. The form leaves no room for common sense but I guess that bus left the station many years ago here.

The form does not ask that. There is no item for surgery in general. It asks about heart surgery specifically, and it asks if you have back, arm, or leg problems following surgery.

My main pet peeve and this is being addressed in the shop that I use, is not giving the form to the student until just before class with the statement "You need to fill this out and if you answer yes to any question then you cannot get into the water until you have a Dr.s clearance".

That is indeed poor management by the shop. In the shop where I work, students are given a thorough briefing on the form when they sign up for the class.

 

[CamG]

Greetings Graf!
This is a very good thread as it can shine a light on a extremely important part of the training process. The form is designed to first and for most protect the diver and the training agency, instructor, LDS.
It seems like a pain filling them out every time you train, however as robint has shared being a participant in a incident will bring the legalities into focus.
I have been a part of just such a incident and it is a nightmare! All parties survived but the aftermath was very unpleasant. Peoples character are tested, and not always truthful yes / no answers on the form become questions of survival.
Robint, I feel for the instructor he was placed in a compromising position that he had no way of knowing about, then unjustly thrashed in public. This is not acceptable and nor should it be allowed!
So the point for new divers to take from this is simple, "ANSWER THE HEALTH FORM TRUTHFULLY!!!!!!" Do not lie in anyway if there is a concern get it checked out.
Do not fear doctors will black ball you, it is actually quite the opposite most I have the pleasure to know encourage safe physical activity! This of coarse is heath permitting.
I have a working real-relationship with my ENT, and family doctor. Be proactive and be covered, "D.A.N."!
Good luck and do not worry about the form just fill it out correctly and follow the requirements. Everyone will benefit and safe training can take place!
CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!