Near-DIR diving: Are there DIR things you would probably never do?

[lamont]

Ah... so it was done... once? Just like exploration where it's done... once (save re-lining and such). You can dive however you want, but deploying and then reeling in 1200' of line because you want to doesn't really prove that you need to be able to do it.

Basically, my point is that DIR is based on the use of a scooter. It dictates how you hold your light and how you deploy a reel. 99% of recreational divers will never use a scooter. Using a system that's built around a piece of equipment you will never use is sub-optimal.

Yeah, but back a few years ago I just wanted to take DIRF to help me recreationally dive better. And I fought the light in the left hand and everything else. I thought technical diving and cave diving was something that I would never be interested in. Fast forwards a bit and doing technical diving in the ~150 foot range seemed reasonable, but I'd never go much deeper than that I would never cave dive. Fast forwards a bit more and Tech2 seemed reasonable, but cave navigation errors scared me and I thought I'd do Cave1 in order to make me a better wreck diver. Fast forwards a bit more and Tech2/Cave2 seems perfectly reasonable and I'm just looking for work to give me an excuse to let me give them the middle finger and take a 2 month vacation to Mexico, and I own two scooters (surfacing in ferry lanes is highly sub-optimal around here so the overhead -- while not quite as unforgiving as rock -- does make a backup scooter very nice to have). I'm not doing exploration diving laying line, but buddies in MX were helping out zero gravity with the exploration of ox-bel-ha last time I was down there.

Unless you have a crystal ball which can tell which divers are going to wind up laying line with scooters, the idea is to teach them all like they're going to wind up doing that...

 

[lamont]

I've heard about many different yardsticks to measure a diver's readiness for tech/cave diving. Ability to reach over with your left hand to donate a long hose routed from the right post is not one of them.

Generally you are going to have enough time while closing distance to transfer the light off your right hand and onto your left and then donate with your left. If you're closer than that and your hands are occupied, then your buddy can just take it out of your mouth.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Alright, so that's GI3, JJ, Casey and JeffG... bringing the grand total up too : drum roll: 4!!!!!!


Um, yeah, it pretty much sounds like it. Do you not have boats or compasses in the PNW? Do you *have* to run a line, or do you just do it so you can be cool and then reel up that 1/4 mile of line?

Way more people have scooters here than boats ... and I can think of a few neat wrecks located less than 1/4 mile off-shore that would be appropriate for this application.

FWIW - the ones I'm aware of don't reel up the line ... they tie it off and use it as a reference for finding the wreck later on. Since some of these wrecks are pretty deep (one that I've been on is at about 200 feet), that leaves you time to enjoy the wreck rather than spending all your time looking for it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ucfdiver]

How are you donating the long hose with your left? I can see getting it over your head that way (no biggie). But then you need to free it from behind the canister and/or wing. How can you do that with the left?

Also are you are a light cord over or under person?

As stated, I'm not. I don't see why you couldn't hand the 2nd stage to a diver, exchange OK's, and then free it with your right hand, regardless of if you have a light in the right hand or not (assuming everyone is using a goodman handle)

I've heard about many different yardsticks to measure a diver's readiness for tech/cave diving. Ability to reach over with your left hand to donate a long hose routed from the right post is not one of them.

Hundreds of divers do it every day, I'm sure. I don't see how this is such a tough skill to master. Hand 2nd stage to someone in the left hand, ensure they're OK, and then free the long hose from the canister light with whatever hand you choose.

 

[CompuDude]

I had an interesting conversation with JJ a couple of weeks ago, regarding my impression that the DIR equipment configuration seemed very much optimized for a cave environment, and that perhaps there were things that could be or would be done differently if the focus was more the open water environment instead.

He objected emphatically to my impression, noting that the people on the training counsel were very much internationally oriented, and in fact the cavers were in the minority among those who developed the training procedures GUE uses. The vast majority of the international GUE instructors are NOT diving in caves, and yet still consider the gear configuration to be optimal.

Curious...

 

[Bismark]

Hundreds of divers do it every day, I'm sure. I don't see how this is such a tough skill to master. Hand 2nd stage to someone in the left hand, ensure they're OK, and then free the long hose from the canister light with whatever hand you choose.

Hundreds of divers.....every day?? Too funny. I am picturing donating my long hose with my left hand while my right hand is holding my light and holding my scooter: then trying to free my long hose from under my light canister, again with my left hand.... while wearing a drysuit, double 130's and a stage, and a 50% bottle on my left, and a leash with 02..........Dude, have you ever tried this or are you working this out on your x-box?

 

[ucfdiver]

I had an interesting conversation with JJ a couple of weeks ago, regarding my impression that the DIR equipment configuration seemed very much optimized for a cave environment, and that perhaps there were things that could be or would be done differently if the focus was more the open water environment instead.

He objected emphatically to my impression, noting that the people on the training counsel were very much internationally oriented, and in fact the cavers were in the minority among those who developed the training procedures GUE uses. The vast majority of the international GUE instructors are NOT diving in caves, and yet still consider the gear configuration to be optimal.

Curious...

From what I've seen of the DIR system, it would work anywhere I've dove in. I plan to take GUE fundies in the near future because of this.

Hundreds of divers.....every day?? Too funny. I am picturing donating my long hose with my left hand while my right hand is holding my light and holding my scooter: then trying to free my long hose from under my light canister, again with my left hand.... while wearing a drysuit, double 130's and a stage, and a 50% bottle on my left, and a leash with 02..........Dude, have you ever tried this or are you working this out on your x-box?

OK, now we're back to the scooter issue. Everyone I've seen who uses a scooter holds the light in their left hand.

 

[Adobo]

Hundreds of divers do it every day, I'm sure. I don't see how this is such a tough skill to master. Hand 2nd stage to someone in the left hand, ensure they're OK, and then free the long hose from the canister light with whatever hand you choose.

Whether or not hundreds of people do it everyday is neither here nor there. You assert that people who cannot donate a longhose routed over the right shoulder using the left hand probably do not belong in tech diving. I am merely stating that I have never heard of that specific requirement before. GUE for example, describes the proficiency in buoyancy, maintaining trim, propulsion techniques, experience, age, etc as a means to judge one's readiness for tech diving.

FWIW, IMO handing someone an object underwater using your left hand is trivial. Reaching across your face to grab the hose of your primary reg, uncoiling it from behind your neck and donating it to an out of gas diver is a little more difficult.

 

[JeffG]

I had an interesting conversation with JJ a couple of weeks ago, regarding my impression that the DIR equipment configuration seemed very much optimized for a cave environment, and that perhaps there were things that could be or would be done differently if the focus was more the open water environment instead.

He objected emphatically to my impression, noting that the people on the training counsel were very much internationally oriented, and in fact the cavers were in the minority among those who developed the training procedures GUE uses. The vast majority of the international GUE instructors are NOT diving in caves, and yet still consider the gear configuration to be optimal.

Curious...

Because it (equipment config) is based on consistency.

Comments I made earlier in life.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/2808701-post1.html

 

[JeffG]

OK, now we're back to the scooter issue. Everyone I've seen who uses a scooter holds the light in their left hand.

If procedure A is very similar (or equal) to procedure B, but procedure B "breaks" when using procedure C, but procedure A works.

Which procedure works best in all situations?

Is it better to know one procedure for a task? or should a new additional procedure be learned for a particular task every time a new procedure is added?