Which Camcorder?

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paradicio

paradicio

Contributor
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Location
San Dimas, CA
# of dives
200 - 499
My wife and I are new divers; we got certified on April 28th and have done 40 dives since. I have become very interested in underwater photography (to the point where I feel naked underwater without my camera). While I’m not very good, I’m learning and having an absolute blast with it.

My wife has taken a shine to underwater videography, and that is where my question comes in…

She’s been using her point and shoot camera just taking stills, but I can tell her heart is really not into it - she wants to do video. So, for Christmas this year I was planning on getting her a Digital Camcorder (unfortunately I don’t have the funds for both a u/w cam and the housing, so she’ll have to get the housing on her own later). Unfortunately I’m on a pretty tight budget, so I can’t spend more than $1k. I was looking at the Sony HDR-SR5, but I read that it doesn’t perform very well in low light conditions. As all but 4 of our 40 dives have been here in So Cal waters, I’d really like to get her something that does well with the low light conditions we'll be diving in most often.

Given those constraints, is there anything out there that will fit under our tree this year? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
At the moment I'm selling on EBay, with 1 Canon zr70 and 1 Canon zr65 with Ikelite housing on one listing and 2 Ikelite Prolite II's on another listing. All are currently up for auction.

I've purchased a new camera and housing, so I'm selling my other rig.

Camera's and housing:
Ikelite Underwater Housing + 2 Canon mini DV cameras - (eBay item 260188758653 end time Dec-07-07 09:31:05 PST)

Light's:
Ikelite's Pro Video-Lite II PAIR !!! - (eBay item 260188764573 end time Dec-07-07 09:49:32 PST)

If you would like to see some results please look at the video's "Cayman Brac" and "Night of the Eel" that I've posted on Google video. (The Sea Lion video and the grouper on the same page were shot with my new camera and housing.):
Cayman Brac

I'll be shipping to the winning bidder in time for Christmas !

NAIBDiver1
 
While the post above is a good deal, I personally would stick with an HDV camera instead of MiniDV. The two Canon ZR models listed are single-chip miniDV, the single CMOS SR5 will yield substantially higher quality results. Image quality is better with HDV unless you have a 3-chip miniDV model. And imo even those are only better in low-light conditions. For most recreational video use HDV is the best option now.

This next paragraph is slightly conjecture on my part since I've never seen an SR5 review.

According to Sony, it has a 2lux minimum rating. Which is pretty good. However I think they achieve that using auto-slow shutter so fast moving objects in low-light conditions may be blurred. I believe the SR5 uses the same chip as the HC5, if that's the case, it actually has slightly better performance than the HC/SR7 series since Sony's engineers crammed more sensors in the same footprint. More sensors means more crosstalk/noise so the low-light performance suffers on the "7" series.

So the SR5 may not be a bad choice for low-light HDV shooting.

One thing about the SR5 is that it has no viewfinder. So you'll need to find a housing that will allow you to see the camera's LCD screen. Ikelite or Ocean Images are two more affordable examples. Ikelite uses a mirror and reversing circuitry, the O/I box is wide enough to open the LCD. One nice feature of either is that they have controls for Manual White Balance (O/I's is an add-on) which will be more important when shooting w/o lights.

Or you can get a housing with an external monitor, but they can be $400-2200 more. Depends on if the housing has an SD or HD monitor. Light & Motion just started shipping their Stingray HD which will house the SR5 - or any HDR series camera and includes an SD external monitor. But it's 1899. For general framing an SD monitor on an HDV system will work, where you'll have difficulty is macro focusing.

Nice thing about a Sony camcorder is that just about everybody makes a housing for it, both electronic and mechanical manufacturers. Unlike all other brands which are housed by mechanical mfr's only.

I've never shot in SoCal but I have dove there. I think you'll eventually want a lighting system for the best results given the mostly murkier conditions you can encounter. And the kelp diffuses a lot of surface light.

Lights can double the price of the package.

hth,
 
I am a land based (amateur) videographer who is just getting into underwater video, but here is my opinion.

The problem with the SR5 is that it is not HDV, it uses the AVCHD codec. While it is theoretically a more efficient codec, it has not been implemented that way as of yet. It must be converted before it can be edited, as the software companies are still behind in offering support for AVCHD. While it offers beautiful video straight from the camcorder, the conversion process degrades the image.

If she were shooting only on land, there would be no question about the camcorder that I would recommend based on features and video quality, the Canon HV20. There simply is not a camcorder out there that offers this kind of video quality at this price. There are deals right now for $799, even less if you really look. B & H is has a deal right now for $799 plus a $150 gift card (effectively lowering the price to about $550).
One thing that the HV20 doesn't have is a LANC, which means that you must use a housing with mechanical controls. Some people want mechanical controls, but if you want the option of using electronic controls, you will need to go with a Sony.

I agree with sjspeck, go with an HDV camcorder. They offer better video quality than most 3 CCD prosumer camcorders (albeit without the manual controls) with the exception of low light, even when used for standard definition video.
 
DaFireMedic:
I am a land based (amateur) videographer who is just getting into underwater video, but here is my opinion.

The problem with the SR5 is that it is not HDV, it uses the AVCHD codec. While it is theoretically a more efficient codec, it has not been implemented that way as of yet. It must be converted before it can be edited, as the software companies are still behind in offering support for AVCHD. While it offers beautiful video straight from the camcorder, the conversion process degrades the image.

If she were shooting only on land, there would be no question about the camcorder that I would recommend based on features and video quality, the Canon HV20. There simply is not a camcorder out there that offers this kind of video quality at this price. There are deals right now for $799, even less if you really look. B & H is has a deal right now for $799 plus a $150 gift card (effectively lowering the price to about $550).
One thing that the HV20 doesn't have is a LANC, which means that you must use a housing with mechanical controls. Some people want mechanical controls, but if you want the option of using electronic controls, you will need to go with a Sony.

I agree with sjspeck, go with an HDV camcorder. They offer better video quality than most 3 CCD prosumer camcorders (albeit without the manual controls) with the exception of low light, even when used for standard definition video.
Click to expand...


I second the Canon HV20. What a sweet little HD recorder. I used it on an expedition. It took a whacking too, as well as the harsh sea air. The picture is nearly as good as some early 3 chip HD Sony cameras. Way better than 3 chip DV cameras which I bought a few years back.

As mentioned it's cheap now! I bought it for 200.00 more in July....arghhhhhh@

X
 
DaFireMedic:
I am a land based (amateur) videographer who is just getting into underwater video, but here is my opinion.

The problem with the SR5 is that it is not HDV, it uses the AVCHD codec. While it is theoretically a more efficient codec, it has not been implemented that way as of yet. It must be converted before it can be edited, as the software companies are still behind in offering support for AVCHD. While it offers beautiful video straight from the camcorder, the conversion process degrades the image.

If she were shooting only on land, there would be no question about the camcorder that I would recommend based on features and video quality, the Canon HV20. There simply is not a camcorder out there that offers this kind of video quality at this price. There are deals right now for $799, even less if you really look. B & H is has a deal right now for $799 plus a $150 gift card (effectively lowering the price to about $550).
One thing that the HV20 doesn't have is a LANC, which means that you must use a housing with mechanical controls. Some people want mechanical controls, but if you want the option of using electronic controls, you will need to go with a Sony.

I agree with sjspeck, go with an HDV camcorder. They offer better video quality than most 3 CCD prosumer camcorders (albeit without the manual controls) with the exception of low light, even when used for standard definition video.
Click to expand...

Sony Vegas Movie Platinum, which retails for abut $120 does avchd....
 
Scuba and Dream:
Sony Vegas Movie Platinum, which retails for abut $120 does avchd....
Click to expand...


I understand that Ulead does now also. The others will come along soon, if they haven't already.

The problem I have with Sony is that I've read that Vegas only supports Sony's AVCHD camcorders.

Unfortunately, Sony has decided to continue their trend of making things proprietary. I don't mean to rant, but that is why I initially decided against the HC7 and went with the HV20. Turned out to be a good decision.
 
Apple's Final Cut Express 4, CyberLink's PowerDirector 6, Sony Vegas 7.0e, Vegas Pro 8and Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8, Corel's Ulead VideoStudio 11 Plus, Pinnacle's Studio Plus 11, and Canopus' EDIUS Pro 4.5 video editing software all support the AVCHD format. iMovie '08 allows you to convert AVCHD to the Apple Intermediate Codec format, but does not support AVCHD directly.

Conspicuously absent: Adobe...

thanks wikipedia...
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I went ahead with the SR5. We are budding Mac users (slowly switching out our PC's for Macs), and seeing that Final Cut Express 4 supports AVCHD was a boon.

I really appreciate all the feedback! :)
 
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