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a ban on Manatee interaction. Currently if they initiate contact humans can reciprocate. However the actions of these individuals and operators may make it so that if the Manatee approach one must back off and not touch them at all. I told both ladies I supported this action. These may be gentle, docile animals but they are still wild animals. Humans have no business touching them if it means *******s like American Pro and others are going to take that little bit of freedom and turn it into outright harrassment.
I'm sorry but banning manatee interactions because of the actions of one operator and a couple of idiots who rented a pontoon boat isn't the answer. That penalizes the operators that abide by the rules (like Bird's) and will limit the public's chances of becoming more aware of the manatee's plight. These are supposed to be run as educational tours and by and large, they are.
The best option is simply for local law enforcement to enforce the laws that are already on the books. If funding is the issue that's preventing it, add a tax to the tours and boat rentals that's high enough to ensure adequate law enforcement during daylight hours during peak season at a minimum.
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Brian E-divers
Have you booked your dives for Invade the Keys III?? What are you waiting for??
If you have facts, share them. Otherwise let's get back to rumor, speculation, and misinformation, the foundation upon which the internet was built. And if you want to experience Florida diving like the locals, get your info from the locals.
This member has said "Thank you." to deepstops for this useful post:
Protection of manatees in Crystal River is a mixed bag. The FWS refuge proper is a small portion of the Kings Bay (the part of Crystal River that most of the interaction takes place). FWS can enforce rules on the refuge itself but off the refuge they are limited to enforcing MMPA. Most of the bottomlands are state lands. Florida has it’s own manatee protection laws that include harassment. The argument from Law Enforcement has always been the harassment laws are to vague and the FWS interaction guidelines are just guidelines.
Don’t confuse refuge with sanctuary. The Refuge is the land and water under ownership of USFWS. Sanctuaries are legal entities by federal state, or local laws. The sanctuaries are the place where human activity is restricted. Just because a manatee is outside a sanctuary does not mean it is free to be abused and cannot be harmed. Just because a sanctuary exists does not (obviously) protect manatees from improper and unethical treatment.
The Crystal River Refuge is undergoing the beginning process for a new management plan. They will be receiving written comments until March 6. Please comment.
USFWS
c/o Crystal River CCP
1502 S E Kings Bay Dr.
Crystal River, FL 34429
There is an FWS rule that allows for a Manatee Protection Refuge (different than a FWS Refuge). This allows for a regulatory framework in dealing with manatee protection . I am asking that this would be applied to all of Kings Bay allowing for more certain regulation. Without a strong basis for enforcement the only alternative is to stop the interaction. With such a designation rules could be made and enforced allowing reasonable interaction (passive observation).
The State of Florida will also be reviewing it’s laws regarding harassment. FWC website clearly states that touching is illegal however that is not strictly enforced. Calls and letters to FWCC and Florida Officials can help.
By the way, the Marine Mammal Commission wrote USFWS in 2000 saying that things were not going well in Crystal River and asking for a 10 ft. rule. They again wrote in ’04. All the operators have been advised for many years to operate within the guidelines. If this is brought to an end it will be because of those companies and individuals who refuse to follow the guidelines.
Last edited by hilishadjo; February 21st, 2008 at 04:01 PM.
This member has said "Thank you." to hilishadjo for this useful post:
I'm sorry but banning manatee interactions because of the actions of one operator and a couple of idiots who rented a pontoon boat isn't the answer. That penalizes the operators that abide by the rules (like Bird's) and will limit the public's chances of becoming more aware of the manatee's plight. These are supposed to be run as educational tours and by and large, they are."
Currently, I also don't think it is time to just eliminate the swim with programs. I believe we just need to change the way they are conducted. A no touch rule is the only way I can currently think of to insure a manatee initiates an encounter. Touching leads to habituation. Habituation has been shown, by its very definition, to change natural behavior. These are wild animals. Altering a manatees natural behavior is against the guidelines.
Just days before the matter was scheduled to be heard in court, prosecutors dropped charges against a local dive shop guide who was accused of harassing a manatee in the Blue Waters section of the Homosassa River.
According to court records, the State Attorney's Office dropped charges of molesting a manatee against Susan Dawn Crowley, who works for the American Pro Diving Center, due to "insufficient evidence to sustain a conviction."
Prosecutors announced their decision Tuesday. The trial was slated to begin Monday before County Judge Mark Yerman.
Crowley, 47, of Homosassa declined to comment. She deferred to the owner of American Pro Diving Center, Ron Goodenow.
"We're very, very happy with the outcome, and from this point on we'll just go on from here," Goodenow said. "I felt we did nothing wrong."
An officer from the state Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission said he saw Crowley chasing a manatee and preventing it from leaving the area on the morning of Feb. 27. He said Crowley was leading a group of divers at the time.
It was believed to have been the first time a professional guide had been formally accused of the charge.
Goodenow said he thought the charges damaged his business but he thought the state's decision to drop charges speaks volumes about the case they had.
"We had a videotape of the tour. We had other people on the tour, witnesses who said that Susan did not do anything wrong," he said.
Goodenow said it was time to move on.
"We've worked with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission. We've worked with the federal Fish and Wildlife Service. We helped them put out their sanctuaries," he said. "Nothing is going to change there. There are no ill feelings."
Assistant State Attorney Lisa Gertsner, who was prosecuting the case against Crowley, did not return several calls for comment Friday. Goodenow added that his business wants to send a message of protecting manatees, not harming them.
"It's all about education. It's what we do here. We teach the dos and the don'ts. We're not out here doing the don'ts," he said.
This is why I feel a lot of the pressure, for now, has to come from the dive community to make better choices. This would mean us consumers driving the change in the marketplace through simple economics. On the whole divers are more aware of these types of issues then the average tourist snorkeler. But those average snorkelers often ask us what we think. This is when we can help create a groundswell of change.
Everybody on Scubaboard has been great getting contact info out there and phone numbers posted. Don't forget to include all the dive magazines, tourist publications, eco related online and print magazines you know of. Send a letter to their editors.
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AKA Decopixel
These 3 members have said "Thank you." to marksm for this useful post:
This is why I feel a lot of the pressure, for now, has to come from the dive community to make better choices. This would mean us consumers driving the change in the marketplace through simple economics. On the whole divers are more aware of these types of issues then the average tourist snorkeler. But those average snorkelers often ask us what we think. This is when we can help create a groundswell of change.
This is key. While the lawmakers and enforcement agencies are dragging their feet, the word can spread rapidly.
I hope all of you are making those calls. Ms Parker and Ms Pratt were very nice and thanked me profusely for my interest. I am leaving for Bonaire Saturday morning and will most likely not be checking in till I get back. I'd appreciate it if someone would PM with pertinent updates as I know I'll have a whole lotta emails to read thru when I get back and though I'll be sure to read all new posts to this thread some short synopsis's of what's going on will help. Stay with it people, I'm doing a dive planning lecture tonite and part of it will include interaction with marine animals as something to consider when coming up with a plan.
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PADI DM 231943, NAUI Tech1,YMCA Scuba Instructor, Oceanic repair tech. Owner and founder of UDM AQUATIC SERVICES
As a pro I expect to be paid. If that's too much to ask then expect the kind of service you would get for free from anyone else.
I can't believe the response from American "Pro's" Ron Goodenow. How transparently absurd. The filming of the children harassing the manatees is something that should have (and gladly was) filmed, and shared with the diving public, local, state and federal officials. This is certainly one operator who I would never consider going out with and would recommend strongly against others doing so.
With that said, I think we all must consider this unfortunate situation within a broader context. If, as divers, we go out and harass other species, including invertebrates, fish and mammals, are we not just as guilty? I'm not referring to those who legally take game. I'm referring to those who capture an octopus and "play" with it, or "tease" a torpedo ray with a spear tip, or pull the feelers of a spiny lobster, breaking off their primary defense weapons.
I say we, because I am not without fault here myself. I occasionally will touch an animal, usually to place it in a better position for capturing an image. As a marine biologist and educator, generally I do so only with species which I know can take some mild handling without physical damage. Manatees are marquee species that trigger our emotions, but we should really feel the same way about all the living things we encounter underwater.
I'm sorry but banning manatee interactions because of the actions of one operator and a couple of idiots who rented a pontoon boat isn't the answer. That penalizes the operators that abide by the rules (like Bird's) and will limit the public's chances of becoming more aware of the manatee's plight. These are supposed to be run as educational tours and by and large, they are.
The best option is simply for local law enforcement to enforce the laws that are already on the books. If funding is the issue that's preventing it, add a tax to the tours and boat rentals that's high enough to ensure adequate law enforcement during daylight hours during peak season at a minimum.
I think it would be much more sporting to have a Bull Shark petting sessions or maybe go down to the local zoo and shoot sling shots at the tigers rather than molesting and beating up a benign animal like a manatee calf. The manatees no more enjoy this than would a bull shark, difference is you would only climb on a bull shark once or shoot sling shots at a tiger in San Fran once. The "petting" and molesting and out right stalking of these animals by American Pro needs to be stopped. If humans don't get to greedily force their love and compasion on them I am sure they will not miss it one bit.
Protection of manatees in Crystal River is a mixed bag. The FWS refuge proper is a small portion of the Kings Bay (the part of Crystal River that most of the interaction takes place). FWS can enforce rules on the refuge itself but off the refuge they are limited to enforcing MMPA. Most of the bottomlands are state lands. Florida has it’s own manatee protection laws that include harassment. The argument from Law Enforcement has always been the harassment laws are to vague and the FWS interaction guidelines are just guidelines.
Don’t confuse refuge with sanctuary. The Refuge is the land and water under ownership of USFWS. Sanctuaries are legal entities by federal state, or local laws. The sanctuaries are the place where human activity is restricted. Just because a manatee is outside a sanctuary does not mean it is free to be abused and cannot be harmed. Just because a sanctuary exists does not (obviously) protect manatees from improper and unethical treatment.
The Crystal River Refuge is undergoing the beginning process for a new management plan. They will be receiving written comments until March 6. Please comment.
USFWS
c/o Crystal River CCP
1502 S E Kings Bay Dr.
Crystal River, FL 34429
There is an FWS rule that allows for a Manatee Protection Refuge (different than a FWS Refuge). This allows for a regulatory framework in dealing with manatee protection . I am asking that this would be applied to all of Kings Bay allowing for more certain regulation. Without a strong basis for enforcement the only alternative is to stop the interaction. With such a designation rules could be made and enforced allowing reasonable interaction (passive observation).
The State of Florida will also be reviewing it’s laws regarding harassment. FWC website clearly states that touching is illegal however that is not strictly enforced. Calls and letters to FWCC and Florida Officials can help.
By the way, the Marine Mammal Commission wrote USFWS in 2000 saying that things were not going well in Crystal River and asking for a 10 ft. rule. They again wrote in ’04. All the operators have been advised for many years to operate within the guidelines. If this is brought to an end it will be because of those companies and individuals who refuse to follow the guidelines.
That sounds great but Krauss runs that office at 1502 Kings Bay Dr, in Crystal River and I have talked to alot of people there and they have all said the same thing American Pro and Krauss are really good friends kind of like the good ole boys club that goes on in Hernando County. So my thought is don't go to him go over him because it will just end up in the trash anyways. After finding out how things really are I started calling the two ladies they seem to really care about what is going on.
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Key Largo Vacation Rentals Inc. Kawama Yacht Club/Moon Bay & more www.speargirl.com Becky 305-393-9686 Visa/MasterCard
I think some of the talk of banning interaction is crazy. I think every single manatee that I have seen has been heavily scared by boats. It would be insane to excessively restrict people's access to these animals and continue to permit more boat slips, more marinas and for the state to continue to provide economic incentives to promote more population growth, all of which are orders of magnitude more detrimental than a few kids humping a sea cow.
I myself have been hassled by overly enthusiastic law enforcement officers that can not see what is occuring underwater and still assume that some type of negative interaction has occured.
Allowing children (and adults) responsible access to manatees is extremely important to the continued existence of the manatee in my opinion.
Also, I wonder if some people realize just how strong and fast a mantee can swim. It has been my experience that the animals know the boundaries of the swim/ no swim areas in that location and can generally retreat to the "safe" areas if they want.
I understand that a mob of people constantly bothering manatees can negatively affect their ability to feed etc. but most of what I saw on the video was not that big of a deal. The operators need to be responsible and educate people about appropriate behavoirs, but there will always be idiots. It kind of reminds me of people freeking out about a diver touching a reef with one finger when the boat 50 feet away is anchored and the chain is sawing back and forth over the same reef.
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SCUBA Diving: The only sport where grown men will brag about how low their sac is.
If I had a nickel for every wildlife management restriction caused by a miniscule percentage of jack*** people...
All it takes is a couple people to screw things up for everyone. Government will not assume the liability nor the extra costs associated with regulating such close interactions. They'll either let everyone do it (like they are now), or ban it completely. *Gray areas* are a thing of fiction in the world of government-run natural resource management.
I totally expect manatees to soon be placed under no-touch rules. Quite frankly, it's a anomaly of the system that they have not so been placed already. I do not understand how their rules seem to differ from rules of other animals under the Marine Mammal Protection Act. In fact I can't even find them listed under the MMPA... I must be missing something.
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