PADI Police in force

[tajkd]

Diving seems to occasionally attract the know it all person who is convinced he know's best and everyone should only do what he thinks is right.

Diving as an avocation seems to bring out people that know exactly what you should be doing and has become a vehicle for these people to enforce their views. Wherever there is danger in a sport, there are individuals/groups that seem dead set on making sure you are safe no matter what. The only problem is, as stated previously, that no certification will prevent death, no experience can counter every bad situation, and no matter what, people will still do stupid things occasionally.

I, for one, do make decisions after watching folks prepare their gear, or talking with them before I'll take the responsibility for them. I have refused to buddy with some individuals based on those observations.

I do, however, draw the line at making them change their ways. This is supposed to be fun and it isn't my responsibility to make every diver into a perfect clone of me. I sincerely resent those who attempt to dictate my actions in the name of their concept of safety. I appreciate the teaching of the various dive organizations but thankfully reserve the right, on most occasions, to make my own choices.

Flame on...

 

[Akimbo]

I will leave the safety debate to others and address the fun/cost benefit ratio.

If you feel that your dive is not conducted in a way you find enjoyable, discuss it with the captain. He may suggest a boat that caters more to your skill level, suggest a more compatible charter group, toss you and your gear on the pier, or get a different dive master. Either way, you get good info and stop wasting your money. Most want your business and are friendly with other captains.

Failing that, the best way is to get together with five other divers with similar skills and interest. Then charter a six-pack together. It is especially a problem in places like Monterey. A captain may judge the ability to make it around to Carmel Bay as much by "joking and eating" to "puking over the side" ratio than the volume of water coming over the bow. The same happens when they choose the diving spot. You can expect 20', dead calm, and boring when several BCs are mounted upside-down, rental suits fit like girdles and game bags, and the crew is frantically checking their insurance is current.

 

[mikemill]

I went diving off a boat in California recently and a customer got into an arugment
with the newer dive master because his buddy was an open water diver with 36 dives and the max depth was set at 80 ft for the dive. He said that's unsafe, against PADI rules, and wouldn't dive with his buddy to that depth....

Interestingly this seperated the dive boat, some for it some not. I have done alot of diving and would rather have an open water diver with 31 dives than an advanced diver with 10 dives. Diving seems to occasionally attract the know it all person who is convinced he know's best and everyone should only do what he thinks is right.

Because of this one guy we changed our dive site to a less exciting and shallower dive becasue the DM was worried about getting in trouble with PADI. My thought was 31 dives is plenty, you can't but experience and experience is what you really need. What do you guys think?

Within the group of people I dive with we have one major rule: Anyone can call any dive for any reason at any time. This includes "I don't feel comfortable doing the dive with this buddy".

Now there is no need to argue the point. Simply let the captain/dm/buddy know that you are sitting the dive out.

Since you didn't give specifics on the site other than it was 80' why couldn't these divers go down the anchor line that was in shallower water. Most Cali boats I dive from drop a stern and bow anchor. One is in closer to shore and the other is in deeper water.

Most DM's on Cali boats would have said I'm not telling you to go to the bottom just what the max depth is here. You plan your dive.'

The only boats I have been on that drop two anchors are live aboards. The 6-20 diver size ones have only dropped one.

Agreed, most local operators give a planned location, so you have an idea of the max depth before hand. Its not uncommon for OW divers to do sites deeper than 60ft but just dive to the depth their comfortable with.


Having said that..
Recently a captain offered to take us to a 120ft location with OW divers on board. Its a flat reef with a small cave and the shallowest parts in the area are about 110ft.
I was the only one who objected, and did so on behalf of my OW instabuddy (more for my peace of mind Ill admitt) and for myself wanting more that 10 min bottom time. So instead we did a 95ft dive......

None of the boats in CA I've been on have a planned location. Weather, vis, other boats, etc make that impossible. The closest they'll come is saying whether or not they want to go to Carmel (since it is a further ride and more sought after). But none of them promise or even venture a guess at the actual sites.

 

[Scott]

The only boats I have been on that drop two anchors are live aboards. The 6-20 diver size ones have only dropped one.

Good point I was refering to live a boards. I seldom get to Cali for the one day boat rides.

 

[knowone]

key words = "Max Depth" - You don't have to go to the bottom. I dove off Little Cayman, max depth is what 5000-8000ft? It never even crossed my mind to go to the bottom.

I would be surprised if there was nothing to see or any structure until you got to 80ft unless it was prearranged that these were going to be advanced dives.

Whats wrong with you. But it was there.

Who knows why we do what we do, or why people let their information inlet valve corrode.

Haven't been past 100 probably a lot less? Wouldn't have a clue. Haven't found a reason. Take stuff to 60ish for testing. Thats a reason.

 

[jbird71]

I look at the skill of the diver above the certification they hold. Honestly some AOW holders really aren't very advanced at all.

 

[bracko]

we've had a mixup with my OW buddy. on a ~30m dive site

the DM (who happened to also be an instructor) offered to take her as a "deep adventure dive" on the decent and ascent... he gave her the pep talk on deep diving (which i had already done on the way out) and then in we went.

no real problem, we had the option to wait till the next dive which was the chosen site (OW OK) or do the deep dive... now she's a little more confident about her AOW

 

[Tigerman]

Sounds like the complainer needs to bring his own buddy, stay off the boat or 'suck it up,' considering the type of situation involved. If you go out on boat dive trips like that, dives to 80 feet aren't that unusual from what I understand, and there are a lot of people who don't have AOW or Deep Diver certification and still dive to those depths.

Richard.

I totally disagree.
It should be reasonable to expect that dive ops dont take unqualified divers to certain sites and anyone should be able to abort or cancel a dive at any time for any reason.
Also, despite having a guide you should have the opportunity to make alterations to the dive plan, such as max time and depth with whoever youre buddied with if that is physically possible at the site (which for rec diving mostly it is).
If I dont feel confident diving to 100 feet with you, I wont do it and if I have paid a dive op money to be on the boat, you better believe I expect to be assigned another buddy/buddies if Im travelling alone.
Providing a service isnt about pointing at 2 guys, throwing them overboard and say be back in 60 minutes or less and dont go deeper than 90 feet..

 

[catskill diver]

In my short OW dive log I've been to 90+ several times w/ and w/o AOW people, some in navigation experience's , we couldnt find a white horse in a green field. JBird sums it up !!
You and your buddy need to be comfortable with the dive and with each other.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If I'm not diving with a regular buddy which is usually the case when traveling I plan on diving solo. And choose ops that will allow me to do so. I may hook up with someone after I watch them set up their gear, see how they act, etc. If asked we have a conversation about skill and comfort levels. Had this happen on the Grove. My first ocean dive was planned to the well deck at 115-120. Hooked up with someone from this board as a matter of fact who said he was a DM. As we were ready to splash he told me he did not go below 80ft! I told him fine you stay at 80 and watch me do the well deck. Jumped in and he was dog paddling all through the dive! He stayed at 80, I went to 118 actually and still came back with over 600 psi more than he did. From then on I have been very choosy with instabuddies. And as I said prefer to do my own thing. I like diving with others but of my choosing. Not the ops.